Ok, Flatspinman gave me this idea in another thread, but cmpn builders all have some common problems..... like massive amounts of time it takes to finish even the simplest projects,

The FMB is pretty good compared to most, but we still have some real needs that would help us achieve the "feel" we want (immersion I guess) in these varied projects in much less time.

I realize there's all sorts of planes, ships (especially ships) and objects we need, but that isn't really what I'm wanting to explore here.

I'm talking features and capability, shortcomings and any fixes/adaptions you guys come up with. We may learn some stuff here as we do in many threads on such stuff. I'd kinda like to put it all in one place.

I know that the mods have dealt with much of this, like VP media's magnificent and easy to use skin mod that lets you put skins on static planes. Works like a charm and has really made my current 1947 east/west project work.

Some things I would love to have access to or see implemented:

1. The destroyed icons for aircraft that have been blasted on the ground. I'm having to work around this by using the decoy objects, then destroy them, which is kinda tricky since the destruction brush is about as accurate as a smooth bore muzzle loader. Sheeesh.

2. Destroyed vehicles and objects like artillery and tanks etc. The way around this I've found (and I learned this from Dubbo in his "Castaways" cmpn) is to put an artillery piece nearby that destroys it, preferably so close that it destroys itself and adds to the wreckage. I've had to do this in my current project to try and simulate operating out of an airfield that has wreckage strewn about. BUT...it is a huge pain in the keyster and very time consuming.


I Know FSM has a bunch of neat stuff he came up with, so how bout we put this here? I think this was addressed in the past, but I can't find it on here, so it must've been quite a while.

quote:

I think this was addressed in the past, but I can't find it on here, so it must've been quite a while.

Try the sticky thread called Useful Links & Information (08/02/08)

I think Enforcer's talking about proposed changes, not workarounds we already know about. There was a loooonnnnggg thread about his somewhere back in 2004/2005 I think. Among the request were:

• Event triggers (e.g. if axis aircraft come within this circle, spawn allied interceptors)
  
• Group copy/move (yes, there's 3rd party utility now)
  
• Branched campaign support (e.g. If blue win, load mission A, if red win load mission B, if the result is indecisive load mission C)

There were others, but it's so long ago I don't recall.

Edit: Here's two samples, one of them 21 pages long:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru.../50910533/m/67910533
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...50910533/m/507107524

Yeah, I remember seeing them yrs ago, but I was also curious as to how the mods affected this. Those things have really helped, as well as changing the status quo a bit. Some suggestions along this line came out in FSM's thread on favorite cmpns, and I thought it would be useful to update it a bit. I think some things have changed a bit with the patches as well, whether by design or just unintended consequence.

I'll go home now and climb back under my rock.

Ability to assign a formation to AI flights. Normally they use something historical and appropriate, but not always. It would be most useful for building larger bomber formations.

I'd have liked Vic available to the Stukas of my campaigns; unlike other bombers they use echelon right by default. The player can only change the formation of his squadron/staffel/flight/kette etc, of course.

Oh, and the main error with FMB - get it to calculate times with the TAS not the IAS you input, or add a box for TAS, so you can enter the one you want and the other gets calculated from the altitude you've set*. Which brings us to the altitude, which should be the, er, altitude and not height above next waypoint, or again maybe a second box so you can input whichever you desire - alt for medium/high level and height for the low level aircraft.

Oh, and another thing (edits again) make 250 kph IAS for a Val be the same as 250 kph IAS for a Kate if they are at the same altitude: don't have a special type of IAS for every aircraft in the game.

*strangely, I don't ever recall seeing this pointed out, nor have I ever seen anyone ask, 'why are the times wrong in my mission?'

I hadn't thought of that, but it would be handy and help waypoint coordination a bit .

I was just reminded that one time consuming defect in this thing is the numbering system of the objects and how they are arranged, as pointed out by FSM in another thread. Also, the numbers seem to change randomly, certainly when there is a new patch, but I am positive I made a list of the ones I use often in standard 408, and I selected 408 without mods today, and the numbers are totally different than what I had listed. Go figure. Those things need names.

In addition to the things that have been mentioned, it would be nice to have the ability to start missions with aircraft already damaged in a specific way. This would be nice for both the player's aircraft and AI.

A way to make a user designated target that will be worth points. For instance, it would be nice to set the oil storage tanks as targets and make them worth some points. The same with buildings.

I know the trick of putting vehicles inside stuff, but that is a work around and you can destroy the building and not get the truck.

- being able to set a "destroy" target on an enemy plane squadron that doesn't get triggered when it flies within a rather large and unpredictable radius of the destroy icon

- getting AI bombers to reliably hit a target located on top of a hill

I made a few campaigns and there was definitely a lot of stuff that annoyed me, but the nice array of options in the FMB generally overrides any of that.

also not being able to make your own decals, or have more flexibility with decals--like making a flight on the blue team but still being able to put Allied roundels on them without having to create a skin.

All good ideas.

Hey ba5tard5word (is that from George RR Martin's Game of thrones series - Jon Snow's sword perhaps??), not quite sure what you mean. You want a blue flight to use red markings? using a skin seems a fairly easy workaround to me but perhaps I misunderstand.

Also, did you know that you can set the size,timing and conditions (ie, must have landed or not) of Targets?


This is pasted in from my ideas in the other thread.
===============
I'm hoping SOW:BOB's FMB has some improvements, too.
What would it contain? Here's my wishlist.

1.Ability to select groups of units for positioning (ground)AND for setting waypoints, altitudes etc (ie 'formations' - said the man working on an 8th AF campaign). This alone would save lots of time. Kernow - look familiar?

2.Object list WITH FRIKKIN' NAMES!!! Ok, so I have actually almost memorised it but it would certainly help first-timers. Organising it into classes would also be a nifty thought.

3. When you set a certain speed on different aeroplanes or the same planes but with different loadouts they should actually travel at the same speed. Kernow - look familiar?

4. A UI with 'Knowledge in the world', rather than one that relies on 'Knowledge in the head'.
Why is the damage paintbrush use so unclear -which way do I move it, why do I have to hold down "F" to apply it? Label the slider, or use a tooltip or something.

==========================

Non bouncy grass. Real life pilots could put down in a field yet WE can't take off or land just millimetres off the designated strip. it's better now but still not good.

Having been frustrated by the radio commands, I would like the ability for the builder to set invisible targets which the controller can guide layers to. Currently the controller just guides players to the next/final waypoint, even if you have set other types of targets.

NB - I believe ground targets still can be vectored to but I was thinking about air-to-air targets.

YES I wish the object list had names.

quote:

Hey ba5tard5word (is that from George RR Martin's Game of thrones series - Jon Snow's sword perhaps??), not quite sure what you mean. You want a blue flight to use red markings? using a skin seems a fairly easy workaround to me but perhaps I misunderstand.

Nah it's just from the term Bastard Sword, it's a funny name and I chose it in an online game I used to play where nobody liked me because I was good at it.

Sorry if what I said about the decals was confusing...I mean I wish there was some sort of utility to place decals of my choice on planes regardless of whether it's on the blue or red side. Yeah I could make a skin but I'm not a skinner. There are tons of skins out there but if I want to use them in a public campaign, I gotta get permission. It would just be way easier to, with a couple clicks, say "ok, make a Spitfire flight on the blue side, with RAF roundel decals." I recently made my Air Pirate campaigns which has no basis in reality. I wanted to make a Pirates versus RAF campaign but I would need RAF skins for all the British planes, and that would be a lot of work from skinners, so I kind of abandoned it.

quote:

Also, did you know that you can set the size,timing and conditions (ie, must have landed or not) of Targets?

Yeah though I don't quite understand the timing bit. What I mean is if I have an enemy flight take off from their base, fly towards my base to blow it up, and if I set "destroy" on their landing waypoint (so my goal is to destroy them before the escape back to base) then it gets triggered as "failed" right at the beginning of the mission because they spawn in the same place they will eventually land.

Unless there's a way around that with the timing...the timing clocks don't make much sense, are they for hours or minutes?

Good point about those clocks - give us some effing units of measurement! Some are in hours but I think the ship sleep ones are minutes and seconds.Can anyone confirm/correct this? Whatever they are, the timings themselves work very oddly. It took me ages to get them to activate at the right time in my Slot campaign.

About your airfield problem, I'd just avoid it by making the enemy airstart. That's way less hassle to plan as well.

I would like sets of functions from community- made goodies like IL2-Stab, Mission Mate, IL2sticks and the like.
You can't get any better input than by looking at the things the community find essential or useful.

I'll get back on this subject soon...

Just an aside, in my earlier post I highlighted some sentences in red, addressed to Kernow. My intention was just to point out that other makers share his complaints (I think they were posted in this or that other FMBer thread). However, reading it yesterday I thought it might have looked like I was hassling him. That was not my intention. Just wanted to make sure that was understood.

The objects list can be organized by classes if you have mods enabled.

A rather lengthy, handbuilt process, but it can be done by rearranging the static objects .ini list.

option to put skins, squadron, noseart, etc. on stationary planes (i know theres 3rd party stuff out but by the looks of it its not as simple as it should be)

option to add pictures to the briefing - recon photo or just a nice picture of your plane.

option to have planes taxi to runway before take off

option to have stationary plane suddenly turn to an aktive plane. (for example by aktivation of a trigger)

option to select which way the planes fight and do ground attack. For example a fighter aircraft the options were:

Energy fighting
Turn fighting
Mix
Auto(the AI choses what suits the circumstances best)

for a B25 for example you could chooe:

Low level attack
Level bombing
Shallow dive bombing
Dive bombing (why not make it an option?)

Option to specify which sort of formation you want a flight to be in.

option to assaign a flight of bombers to join another flight of bombers into a bigger formation so you could make one flight that was "lead" and then put as many as you wanted to join the formation.

smoother objekt movement in the 3d view.

option to specify stationary camaras initial view direktion

option to have multiple planes take of side by side on the airfields that support this...
for example the Slovakian and Bessarabia airfields. not just from the marked "take off points"

Those are some useful ideas, but the vp media skin mod already easily puts skins on static planes, though it should be an option in the FMB. Wouldn't be that tough to do. The planes are exactly the same, as hte B-17E still has the navigator in the back.


You can have planes take off side by side using the test runways in the ships section. The invisible one (3 I think) seperates them considerably a la Battle of Britain style.

Slowly but surely alot of these suggestions are being managed by the modders, but many of them really should be in the FMB.

quote:

Originally posted by FlatSpinMan:
Good point about those clocks - give us some effing units of measurement! Some are in hours but I think the ship sleep ones are minutes and seconds.Can anyone confirm/correct this? ...

Yes the sleep function for ships is 'mins: secs'. I've tested this at least twice (I forgot and needed to know again).

And talking of time, it would be nice to have a 'mission time' clock available when playing through a mission from FMB - down in the speedbar would be ideal. Would make it much easier to get timings sorted out when you are using the time compression feature to save time during testing. (Clumsy work-around is to have a player ac that has a clock with second hand, and 'pause, jump to cockpit, check clock' whenever you need the time.)

Another timing issue that should be resolved is the 'delay' function on the waypoint tab for vehicles/tanks. Make it apply to the waypoint it is supposed to apply to and not the next one!

quote:

option to assaign a flight of bombers to join another flight of bombers into a bigger formation so you could make one flight that was "lead" and then put as many as you wanted to join the formation.

You can do this with the 'set target' button. Flights will follow their leader in a position that depends on flight number:

2 - right rear
3 - left rear
4 - behind
[1 - best avoided as a follower; they seem to want to fly in the same bit of sky as the leader]

You can build long formations by having flights form on the original followers.

Start flights in a loose version of the formation you want; at second waypoint set each flight to follow their leader. Only the formation leader needs any more waypoints, but all the other flights will follow and bomb the same target. Final point, this works for AI leader aircraft, so if a human is in the lead aircraft he must hit autopilot for a second or 2 to get the AI to react and start forming-up.

I have a a fat handfull of things that I would like to have changed, but it is late and I will only mention a few:

I would like the invisible runway to be twice as long and 20 times as wide.

I would like to be able to cut and paste large groups of objects etc.

I would like to have an "undo button" that would go back a hundred actions.

Be able to have in-game messages come up at set times.

Have more control over targets with if-and-or condition setting. (much more control over targets, as they are the mission goals)