Im working on a campiang based on the JG54 kills list to make the engagments. Have location info (in a weird PQ coordinates system), altitude of the kill, pilot who made the kill. Also have the losses of the squad. Based on that info found at http://www.jg54greenhearts.com/ i think i can make a decent campaing.

Now... Anyone have a VVS order of battle for the Kurland Pocket during late 1944 and 1945?.

From now i know from the kills data that there were La-5 (dont know if F/FN or Early), Yak-9s (No idea on model), Il-2 (same problem) and Pe-2s. Also i think i saw a Boston III kill (A-20?). Any help would be appreaciated.

(Sorry for my english, i speak spanish :P)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MrOblongo,

When I created the Green Hearts: Kurland 15 mission campaign I did some research on the subject. It seems that there was a mix with the greatest numbers of aircraft being Yak-9s (probably Yak-9M in the game). IL-2 Type 3 was common. The A-20Cs flying from great distances to hit shipping targets and the Libau harbor are also historical. Tu-2 and Pe-2 around. Smaller numbers of Yak-3, La-5FN, and the rare encounter with a P-39 in the south of the map is possible as being historical as well.

If u take a look at the Kills of JG54 u can see lots of P39s. If u take a look closely, u can see they are being shot down at the same time and position of Pe-2, that for sure means they were on escorting mission.

For example:

10 October 1944:
Kills:

10.10.44/1010 II/JG 54 Gefr Schmeller Yak-9 Russian PQ 17398 @ 800m
10.10.44/1012 II/JG 54 Lt Albert Seevers Pe-2 Russian PQ 17376 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1012 II/JG 54 Fw Kurt Tangermann Pe-2 Russian PQ 17557 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1012 II/JG 54 Maj Erich Rudorffer P-39 Airacobra Russian 188th/222 PQ 17516 @ 2800m
10.10.44/1013 II/JG 54 Uffz Maennlin Pe-2 Russian PQ 17284 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1014 II/JG 54 Lt Albert Seevers Pe-2 Russian PQ 17385 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1014 II/JG 54 Maj Erich Rudorffer P-39 Airacobra Russian 189th/222 PQ 17524 @ 2800m
10.10.44/1015 II/JG 54 Fw Kurt Tangermann Pe-2 Russian PQ 17563 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1015 7/JG 54 Lt Gerhard Thyben Pe-2 Russian /157 PQ 17522 @ 1800m
10.10.44/1016 II/JG 54 Uffz Sporer Pe-2 Russian PQ 17389 @ 2700m
10.10.44/1017 II/JG 54 Uffz Diesperger Pe-2 Russian PQ 17387 @ 1500m
10.10.44/1017 II/JG 54 Fw Kurt Tangermann Pe-2 Russian PQ 17564 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1017 II/JG 54 Maj Erich Rudorffer Pe-2 Russian 190th/222 PQ 17553 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1017 II/JG 54 Lt Oswald Unterlerchner Pe-2 Russian PQ 17642 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1018 II/JG 54 Maj Erich Rudorffer Pe-2 Russian 191st/222 PQ 17563 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1018 II/JG 54 Uffz Hugo Broch Pe-2 Russian PQ 17528 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1018 7/JG 54 Lt Karl Thaler Pe-2 Russian PQ 17374 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1019 7/JG 54 Fhr Otto Muehleisen Pe-2 Russian PQ 17526 @ 2600m
10.10.44/1020 II/JG 54 Maj Erich Rudorffer Pe-2 Russian 192nd/222 PQ 17645 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1020 II/JG 54 Lt Oswald Unterlerchner Yak-9 Russian PQ 17841 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1024 II/JG 54 Maj Erich Rudorffer P-39 Airacobra Russian 193rd/222 PQ 17641 @ 2000m
10.10.44/1030 II/JG 54 Maj Erich Rudorffer Pe-2 Russian 194th/222 PQ 17658 @ 2000m

As far as i know the area 176 are always near Libau, to the East.

With this info is quite simple to reacreate to some degree the battle that took place. A large formation of Pe-2s moving east of Libau at a height of 2000m escorted by some P-39s. The interception was at 1012 with the first bomber shot down and then it began the slaughter.

From the names of the pilots u can get an idea of the number of intercepting Fw190s... i counted 9 of II./JG54 and 3 of 7.JG54. Since they always flew in Rotten or Scwarm. I made 10 planes of II.JG54 and 4 of 7./JG54. Based at Libau-Grobin.

About the number of Pe-2s, 17 claims mean at least there were 17. In game i put 24. About the Yak 9s.. I just put some patrols near the main formation of Pe-2s.

Well...thats how im working on to make this stuff. So far for this lonely day (10.10.44) i have 3 sorties. And for 9.10.44 i have 7 sorties.

http://rapidshare.com/files/86891080/10.10.44.zip.html
TEST IT IF U WANT, MEAN TO BE PLAYED ONLINE
Briefing in Spanish..

Been using Yak-9M (D in this mission if i remember, have to change it), The insanely huge amount of Il2 claimed makes me feel sorry for those guys!, im mostly using Type 3.

VW-IceFire What are your sources?. Any problem with sharing them?. Thanks!

PS: Any help regarding the PQ coordinates will be appreciated!

My understanding is:
Yak-9M is the ground attack version and was not used in large numbers. Yak-9D would most likely be on escorts and I believe it was most produced Yak.

Sidenote: Pe-2 was flown in this area by one of the all-Female squadrons.

Sturmoviks would have been 2-seaters by this time (IL2-M3)or type 3.

La-5F or FN but I would think the later model FN would be the one used at this time.

A-20/Boston III = Boston B-3 to Soviets.

IceFire is right about the other aircraft available such as the Yak-3. Just because it's not listed as being shot down doesn't mean it wasn't flying there. German pilots were ordered not to engage Yaks "without the nose air intake" referring to Yak-3 since it was a superior a/c.

What version P-39 would have been flying there at that time?

Aviar

I replied about the P-39 versions yesterday but my post got deleted today (another post of mine got deleted in General Discussions).

P-39 versions used at this time would be the "N" and "Q" models.

Most of my sources are people like Ian Boys who made the map and did most of the initial research so my information is third hand as I couldn't find any good first hand sources like that kills list up above.

As for P-39 versions...my guess is that it would be a mix of available types. N and Q series mostly. Might be some Q-10s. Keep in mind that the AI in a Q-10 is a true force to be reckoned with...if you want to keep JG54 numbers to historical values than most missions will feature a pair of aircraft on patrol with rarer large formations.

Here's a useful resource for finding where JG54 was at any given time: http://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg54.htm

It gets complex sometimes but almost every base mentioned is on the Kurland map.

Redwulfs did an "as correct and real as we can do it" campaign style training back in 2006/2007 where we flew as I/JG54 in Kurland.

See this thread for more info. People were very helpful.

cya around

some additional info on Kurland:
http://www.vpmedia.hu/il2/zip/pdt.xls

Thx for the info