on the Moscow map? I always thought "Moscow" in Russian was Mockba. I don't see it. I've tried zooming in on some of the cities looking for the Kremlin (or is the game just not that detailed?). Thanks as always!

I don't see it either. My guess is that Moscow is represented by the large city on the left hand side of the map - Vyazma.

Details like the Kremlin are often left off these maps because the memory requirements woould kill most of the computers trying to run the game.

Vyazma is an actual location and the scene of a number of important battles. The outskirts of Moscow are on the extreme eastern part of the map in grid S13 through S10. The actual city is off the map to the east. I can only assume that because it was one of the early maps they just didn't model the city to save on CPU resources.

Plus there was no fighting in Moscow itself. I believe the city was shelled at extreme long range but the fighting was to the west of it. German troops never actually got to Moscow.

Google Map it...took me a few minutes but everything is where it should be

quote:

Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Vyazma is an actual location and the scene of a number of important battles. The outskirts of Moscow are on the extreme eastern part of the map in grid S13 through S10. The actual city is off the map to the east. I can only assume that because it was one of the early maps they just didn't model the city to save on CPU resources.

That's about it. The map was not extended to include the city itself as there was no fighting in the city. The battle for Moscow was mostly played out a few kilometres west of the city limits. As this was a map included in the original 2001 relase of IL2 Sturmovik, Maddox Games was trying to keep use of resources to a minimum. Remember at that time most of us were still using Win98 with 256MB or less of RAM. I recall that I had only 96MB RAM and a GeForce2mx vid card when I first bought the game.

Shows how observant I am.
I never noticed that Moscow wasn't on the Moscow map.

Wheelsup

Thanks! I just figured a map labeled "Moscow" would, well, have Moscow on it! I remember in my Red Baron game, Paris was not well detailed, but they did have the Eiffel Tower. Guess I can make my own Kremlin using some of the buildings offered. Use one of the churches as St. Basil's. I was going to do a fantasy scenario where Don Blakeslee's Mustangs teamed up with Russian Yaks to repulse a last German push on Moscow where the fighting took place over Moscow.

Well its always considered the "Moscow Front" or battle area ...other smaller nearby locations don't get the recognition so thus the naming in the game. It makes sense from the history book perspective...less so from the purely game related perspective.

Right. Why waste computer space when the battlefields themselves were outside the gates of Moscow? I remember when I went to Russia they still have some of the anti-tank barriers in place as a reminder of the Great Patriotic War.

quote:

Originally posted by wheelsup_cavu:
Shows how observant I am.
I never noticed that Moscow wasn't on the Moscow map.

Wheelsup

Why don't you look up some of the actual Army Group Centre campaigns on Wiki?

A lot more happened in Vyazma during the war, than took place in Moscow itself. It was a major objective in Russian offensives in 42 and 43 and featured the first Allied parachute drop of the war.

I'm actually working on a big, brand new mod map right now which will cover Vyazma and a lot of other key points along that front.