Hi All;

Well after experimenting with the Ki-43's, I was finally able to generate a template to my liking for Ki-61's and am about to generate roughly 50 AI skins for the 68th & 78th Hikousentai with correct markings and so on.....I'm up in the air though about one aspect of the template. That being which shade looks best as bare metal with some slight oxidation. Still have a tad more tweeking to do, yet I'd like input as to which version looks best to you all.

Contained in the .zip here: http://www.speedyshare.com/773819133.html , are 3 skin files. One labeled "TEST" which has a slightly platinum hue to it, the other "TESTA" which has a tad more bluish tint...Finally the template/skin I struggled with for some time listed as "TestOLD" just for chuckles and to show why I've held off so long.

Let me know which of TEST or TESTA looks best....and thats what I'll generate the New Guinea Hien skinpack from.....Thanks for the help!

CREDIT: Though heavily altered the base template was supplied by Jesters Ink. Internal components with some alterations comes from Pappy Boyington who never sent me the template we agreed upon....That all he finished with my research, so it's included (though with more changes coming)...Finally the last template integrated in is my own based off of the very first released for the Ki-61 many years ago by an unknown maker. However credit is due there due to it has been the basis for all others since.

K2

PM me your email please.

it could be my system, but they both look grey to me. I know your looking for the slightly oxidized look. They are well done, and all i did was run a contrast filter over them and it brightened them up a tad.

I also used a replacement color option in photoshop to brighten just a portion of the pixels.

I can send them to you to look at.

If i had to choose one as they are I would stick with Test.

Well the difference is very slight, this all for a base to go under camouflage and show through in the parts where not present....Will do though to see what you generated.

K2

I think Test looks slightly better, although you might want to include more metallic highlights. With NMF, it's quite easy to produce a flat-looking finish.

I think I'd go for Test too. Testold is definitely too "sharp". If I where to use this metal layer for showing where paint was worn away (I sometimes do that on some of my templates), then I'd go for an even brighter look. Then again, I mostly skin European stuff, where the metal showing when paint is worn off is kept fresh and shiny by wear.

Well thanks all for your input! What I have decided to change follows after my reasons.

After a long review of a number of photographs and checking the skin with and without camouflage, it struck me how different in some regards the Ki-61 was vs. say U.S. aircraft though much of it a result of the manufacturing side of things.

First off, the Kawasaki manufacturing and assembly plants were much dirtier then U.S.. Though alone meaning little it did translate into the aircrafts skin being stained and buffed (though when I say buffed I mean taking any sheen from it). Looking over aircraft assembly from both sides showed clearly that while the U.S. aircraft must of gone through cleaning/polishing processes, the Japanese did not. More so the aluminum used was less bright/more dull as applied that in itself reducing its reflective properties. In contrast to say steel which when polished tends to take on a lighter shade or becoming brighter, aluminum tends to look darker, in both cases naturally considering backgrounds influencing the result. However, when corroding steel will tend to shift darker and aluminum to lighter, even to white when fully oxidized.

Add to the above the Ki-61's aluminum had a slightly bluish hue to it (making it look darker), plus the staining and so on. Lastly regarding the aluminum in general a factory fresh Hien had a clear coat of varnish/lacquer applied to it that had an ever so slight yellowish or brown tint.........Past that I needed to consider staining by exhaust & gunpowder, abrasion from coral/sand/dirt, daily rains, sea air, contact with oils and fluids and lastly copious soot in the air.

As to rivets though the Japanese actually more advanced in flush rivet technology (were one of the first my understanding), rivets on Ki-61 tended to turn dark. So though flush with the skin did show as contrasting spots. In kind screws had to be considered being of steel. (As a side note though I'll not be doing it on this template the Japanese also would mark when a screw was set in place painting a line top and bottom in red to match the slot position).........Rivet application did cause a deformation of the aluminum. That tended to open seams, cause low spots over supporting structures, and high spots which became more evident over time causing the surface to deform further as the metal stretched and shrank (part of that also being manufacturing environment vs. that where used, cooler at the former, much hotter at the latter).


So.....

First off to simulate the fresh aluminum and considering the varnish applied to upper surfaces split the hues of platinum (TEST) and blue (TESTA) to where upper surfaces have a more yellow or tint and lower blue. This is difficult to notice in that the base template will utilize common staining of dirt/mud on the bottom due to the type of fields used (it very obvious yet hiding the blue hue on the rear fuselage and elevator).

Next I boosted reflectivity slightly through a number of methods considering that it is not a mirror finish like some wish to see, yet simply a brighter result. Brightening reflection layers slightly, darkening shadows very slightly, removing more of one of 3 grime layers (which darkens the aircraft where removed it becoming brighter and producing a reflection enhancement of sorts).

Rivet line shading was left intact as was panel due to rivet highlighting. However to reduce the 3d look of the skin rivets, I reduced the contrast between the light and dark versions. Now I tried this many times, frankly the rivets need to be there to match real examples yet simply dark.....So a compromise was made as the dark dots alone look too artificial, the light adding too much 3d, so toned down/darkened the light.

A skin deformation layer was added to show stretching and such. Some panel lines were reduced in intesnsity, though I intend to enhance others, others would take too much of a rework for my skills so I simply lightened them to not be so contrasting.

As mentioned by others, the tough part is having a gray shade yet adding white (which is really what happens) and dark shades to make a reflection when in direct light, yet not have the aluminum look white and in contrast too intentionally gray when not......

Still working with it when I have something worthwhile to show I'll post it.....Though it won't be to the gloss of U.S. fighters, yet in kind to the degree we see in most relic photos even upon capture (those today are 60 years of wear, most captured are either after having sat for some time, to even polished as the paint was removed to ship them off for testing).

Thanks for your help,

K2

You are bloody thorough, Billfish! If you say that is the right sheen for the unpainted metal on Japanese fighters, then I’ll consider that authorative. As I said, my uses for metal surfaces are different to yours, and do not really apply. I look forward to seeing the final results!

"TEST A" looks best to me. If you plan to add the green squiggly camo, I would re-evaluate after adding, as it can change the appearance considerably. Rivet lines are overdefined on all IMO for an NMF skin, but again, they could be just right with some green in there.

quote:

Originally posted by R_Target:Rivet lines are overdefined on all IMO for an NMF skin, but again, they could be just right with some green in there.

Fair enough, and repeated by others elsewhere so back at it, a big part once more re-evaluating photographs and some specifications
in some research papers by the true Ki-61 experts over at www.j-aircraft.com .

There was one aspect of Jester's template once I got it working that I REALLY liked....Just as said above the absense of rivet "lines", yet I
couldn't get it to where I wanted it....In kind his template a tad more factory fresh then what I wanted.

Okay, so I began trying to adjust layers from other templates that gave me some of the effects I wanted. In this case darker rivets,
and more intense panel lines. It looked awful....Then tried turning off layers. First the dark rivet lines that go over paint, that
looked really odd. Then the opposite light shading which cost me some deformation yet I kept at it. Then a couple other
layers......and I was left with a rather minimal template YET I liked the smoother effect.

The problem was with each layer turned off more and more rivet detail was lost and could not darken what was there. Fine, made a new copy
layer of his rivets, then darkened it.....Ah better.

TESTB before removing layers, TESTD before rivet darkening, TESTE after new rivet layer.

http://www.speedyshare.com/724220175.html

At this point I'm thinking of adding a third, and seeing how it looks when slightly blurred. In kind I need to darken and enhance some of
the panel lines and access covers a bit.........SO this not done......Yet I'm thinking I like it more based on some
photographs considering the following:

A study was done by Mr. J. Long wherein he checked the average lifespan of a Ki-61 in New Guinea based upon known failure dates or when
so damaged either from accidents, malfunctions, shoot downs or attacked on the ground and found that on average the aircraft lasted 3-4
months......That's 3-4 months from the day they left the assembly line. So staging, then either flown island hopping or shipped to the
Philippines, then waiting to be picked up, flown on through the chain to Western New Guinea, prepped, then flown onto units. So not
a lot of action.

Below some good examples of bare metal Ki-61. The first two from Akeno I believe or perhaps the factory, and no doubt in good shape to show
off the aircraft. The last what I think may be a crash and or fire victim.....In between where I want to go.

K2

You are right, BillFish, the rivets really do turn darker with wear. What strikes me from the photo is that the effect is not equal all over. Some rivets are darker than other. I think using such an effect will allow for darker rivets, without it looking artificial.

I think you're really getting somewhere with "TEST E". The recessed/flush rivets look much more appropriate. If you wanted to, you could add a layer mask to the rivet layer and selectively lighten some of the rivets while leaving others darker.

Well, this has turned into a MASSIVE undertaking now.

After darkening the rivets again and again I realized it just was not producing the results I wanted. Either the rivets just looked too light so that detail was easily lost having turned off the rib/spar shading and highlighting, or looked too dark so fake.

It then struck me what the problem was.....Roughly 3/4 of the rivets were missing from all of the templates out there, that why the areas looked so light and required the excessive shading.

Unfortunately I use a very old version of Photoshop (basically B.E.1.1/Photoshop home 4.0) and am not comfortable using 7.0.....So it is a single pixel at a time add......This is going to delay things by a few days at least.



K2

Well this IS going to take me a good week, in that as you can see from these pics (all I have done so far the top the stock template the bottom new rivets) how many are missing......This was a quick shading of intensity and so on so not how they'll look when done, just to give an idea as to the number off....and worse still I have to place them one at a time manually.



K2

You do know that you can manually make a brush that will draw lines of dots for you? You need to specify the size of the dots and the distance between them. That will save you a lot of time!

Regarding the darkening of the rivets, here's what I would do:

- One layer (or set of layers) to show just the physical effect of rivets (a traditional rivets light & dark layer set). This goes on top of all, as it affects painted areas as well as metal ones.

- One layer (or possibly layer set) of rivet oxidation, to go beneath the paint-layer. Make a copy of the dark 1 pxl rivets layer, and go over it with the eraser set to one of the splotchy patterns, so that some rivets are deleted, some faded and some remain. Perhaps the layer should be blurred ever so slightly (0,3 pixel or thereabouts). Perhaps repeat the process with several layers and merge when you get the effect you are after.

I think this approach will give you a fair approximation of the painted vs unpainted parts of the sin.

Sadly, I cannot work well enough in PS7 to do anything so do it all in PhotoDeluxe Business Edition 1.1 (basically PS1 and PS Home Edition 4)....That feature not part of that program.

Great suggestion about the variable rivet color and how to do it maintaining the integrity of one layer....Will deffinitely use it once I get the other 10,000,000,000 rivets in

K2

quote:

Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Sadly, I cannot work well enough in PS7 to do anything so do it all in PhotoDeluxe Business Edition 1.1 (basically PS1 and PS Home Edition 4)....That feature not part of that program.

Great suggestion about the variable rivet color and how to do it maintaining the integrity of one layer....Will deffinitely use it once I get the other 10,000,000,000 rivets in

K2

Now that's dedication. What FF suggested is about the same as what I suggested; the luxury of layer masking just means you never have to erase anything. Just don't forget to make a duplicate rivet layer and save it before you start experimenting with the eraser.

Also, you probably have this already, but if you don't, check out this 61 stripped for restoration.

http://rides.webshots.com/album/235442219eKCadh

You can't save full-size images from webshots w/o being a "friend" of the poster, but you can hit print screen and paste it into a new doc in the image editor.

Aw, I foresee long, long hours of copy-paste-move-merge...

Okie Dokie;

On this days edition of "Can the skin tard figure it out", we're looking at how rivets look when close to panel lines.

The wing main spars I discovered are NOT tapered as shown in the old template yet are straight. That good, yet they also contain and are flanked by a tremendous number of rivets so an excellent place to discuss this. The problem is where panel lines meet often the rivets are very close to the edge.

Now we have a choice simply due to the bmp size constraints. That being in cases where to be to scale I would need a "half pixel difference", I need to choose if I should place the rivet flush to the edge of the line losing the gap between them.....OR.....Offset them one pixel placing them a tad too far away.

Look at the starboard top wing spar.....

Test H has the correct spar and "internal" rivet spacing to it....However it has the 1 pixel gap on the external flanking rivets. Test I has an incorrect internal spar so disregard it....However it shows how the external rivets look when placed flush so representative of that condition.

http://www.speedyshare.com/740990330.html

Feedback appreciated.

K2

Leave a pixel gap.

Noted CanonUK!

WHile we're at it.....Take a look at the tightly packed double row zig zag pattern rivets inner wing.....I'm debating breaking that up (losing every other rivet) as now it looks like a zig zag vs rivets.

As it stands it is correct........Yet with the limitations of digital images it does not come off as individual rivets vs a line....Debating...



K2