So I'm trying to do up some RAAF Beau's for Team Pacific's New Guinea-New Britain map, and am trying to get my colours straight.

Mk 21's manufactured in Australia came from the factory with a 1 tone "Foliage Green" applied overall. If I use the colour values from the simmers paintshop swatches, I end up with this:



I think it looks OK for a sun-bleached look, but it just seems to be way too light. The 2 tone camo schemed ones seemingly come out alright:



Suggestions?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Skunk_438RCAF,

Controversial Topic .....


Cut and paste from an aero-modelling forum at http://www.clubhyper.com/refer...iagegreenrefgb_1.htm note they suggest it should be very close to USAAC medium Green 42.


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Recently there has been some discussion in the "Plane Talking" discussion group here on HyperScale regarding the colour match of K3/177 Foliage Green. This discussion almost mirrored what went on in the newsgroup rec.models.scale, a few years back. Tempers at times got a little frayed among those who were following this thread in the newsgroup and several individuals thought that they were exclusively correct. The problem was that many of those who thought only their humble opinion was right were not necessarily those who were up to speed on things RAAF, or had local knowledge of such.

Even Australian modellers argued heatedly about the true identity of Foliage Green. Foliage Green turns out to be markedly similar to the US Army Air Corps colour, Medium Green 42, which was first listed by the Air Corps in a specification bulletin of 22 October 1940.[2] "One of the chief items studied in the development of permanent camouflage finishes for the Air Corps, under Study No. 42, was suitable matt shades of colour for the camouflage. Tests were run on various shades, using water paint and other types of lacquer and enamel finishes then being developed simultaneously. The results of Study No. 42 culminated in the issue of the Air Corps bulletin No 41, dated September 16, 1940 (one day after the decisive combat between the Royal Air Force and the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain). Entitled "Color Card for Camofulage Finishes", it contained eight color chips, each one inch by three inches (2.54 x 7.62 cm) in size, The new colours were: Dark Olive Drab No. 41, Medium Green No. 42, Neutral Gray No. 43, Black No. 44, Insignia Red No. 45, Insignia White No. 46, Insignia Blue No. 47, and identification Yellow No. 48".[3] Less than a month later Army Air Forces Bulletin No. 41-A was issued, introducing Sand No. 49.

In today’s modern paints FS 34092 makes an approximate, but not exact match For Foliage Green, which it appears was a local attempt to copy the American colour, Medium Green 42. What brought this about? It is the authors’ belief that as the RAAF began to receive aircraft from America in addition to those arriving from Britain, it became apparent that the American colours, particularly the green, matched the Australian vegetation and climate better. The obvious answer was to get local paint manufacturers to replicate this colour so that locally produced and overhauled aircraft would blend better into the Australia background.




Federal Standard Comparisons



It is important to remember that when modellers toss around phrases like "the FS match for K3/169 is 21136" or "K3/185 Yellow is FS 23538", they are not being totally correct in their application of the various standards or their language. Unfortunately there is a considerable bloc within the modelling community that fervently believes every colour ever created and used on military aircraft is covered by a Federal Standard number. This is simply not true because the Federal Standard is only the latest in a line of standards that have developed through the years. In reality, the current US Federal Standard 595 is a guide for contractors supplying materiel to the US Government. This situation was the same in all countries, which developed standards for their use of colours. There is also a considerable school of thought that believes the RAAF suddenly created technical instructions and orders regarding aircraft finishes at the commencement of WWII. This is not the case, as the RAAF copied what others had done before them, most notably the RAF. The advent of WWII caused a marked variation in the aircraft finishes seen in RAAF service. This came about in a default mode because numerous aircraft that the RAAF obtained during WWII were purchased or supplied under the terms of British or American contracts. Some were supplied under Lend – Lease agreements and others were purchased outright by Australia or a third party (for example, Britain), yet others were off-loaded in Australia when the country of destination had surrendered to Axis forces.

Previously this had been expressed on HyperScale as follows:

Not being an expert nor a scientist a “definitive” ruling on the subject of the “correct” colour of RAAF K3/177 Foliage Green cannot be given. However, having spent many years researching the camouflage and markings off aircraft, the following opinion is based on a wartime colour chart with paint chips, issued by one of the RAAF’s wartime suppliers, Spartan Paints, and samples recovered from various RAAF aircraft, including a Beaufort and Beaufighter. Various sources have given colour “matches” of RAAF colours to FS595. This is an imprecise art at best. No RAAF colour is a precise match to an FS equivalent. The FS system is not designed to match colours but to define a range of colours for use by the customer. To quote FS equivalents for US ANA wartime standards is an approximation; eg Medium Green is not precisely FS 34092.

Modellers (and paint manufacturers) too often fall into the trap of trying to exactly match an FS equivalent when this in turn is merely an approximation of the original colour. Having said all this let's now attempt to give some approximate matches for Foliage Green. The colour in the Spartan chart is close to FS 24096 but is a little sharper or greener, but is not as green as the oft quoted FS 24092. The samples from aircraft vary from this to approximately FS 24079 on Beaufort and Beaufighter aircraft. Obviously all these samples (including the colour chart) will have changed with the passage of time and are probably from different suppliers. The moral is don’t be too pedantic in your choice of colour. It is believed that this applies not only to RAAF aircraft but to other airforces as well. Acceptance reports on paint show a considerable variation in colour even in different batches by the same supplier. Incidentally the Foliage Green chip in the Spartan chart is quite close to the Medium Green chip in Jay F. Dial’s United States Camouflage WWII published quite a few years ago.

Finally, the K3 colours are smooth with a semi-matt finish. A report by 1 APU on the effect of paint finishes on the performance of a P-40, points out the much smoother finish of the Australian (and British) paints compared to their US counterparts.

WOW. I had no idea what I was getting myself into. That has got to be the most detailed response to any post I have ever made, anywhere.

Thanks Galway...not what I was expecting but most interesting to say the least.

Simmers seems to list Medium Green 42 as the same HEX and RGB value as Foliage Green.

no worries ...

It does seem to me it should be darker but thats mainly be based on profiles and models that could well be totally wrong.


Kristof has done a lot of excellent RAAF Spitfires, possibly PM him for his thoughts on the matter, he usually seems very helpful.


btw ... googling around found these photos which may (or may not) be foliage green :

I have a couple of pictures of a spit with foliage green. I have found that greens used by the RAAF did not fade to much. Greys & browns did fade alot.

I thick the foliage green at Simmers is about right.







Regards

eirinn

Hey, thats the Langdon-Badger Vc in Adelaide SA!
I was once permitted to wipe it down with a large cloth. It promoted a feeling somewhere between brushing a horse and sponge-bathing a stripper.

Though by far no expert on color, all I can toss in from my experience with Japanese aircraft is to NEVER go by a restored or repainted aircraft or sample to determine the correct color.

You need to go by relic samples that were protected like a prepainted piece that was in a tight seam protecting it from weather, oxygen, heat, UV light, etc.. In kind simply age itself will cause a shift, yet aircraft like the A20 up top cannot be trusted. In kind, don't be so sure other aircraft like those above are not repainted. They've had 50 years to get fiddled with, so unless it is documented as being original and unrestored you cannot trust them either no matter how weathered they may look.

K2

quote:

Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
I was once permitted to wipe it down with a large cloth. It promoted a feeling somewhere between brushing a horse and sponge-bathing a stripper.

Nice description lol

From what I gathered/read, the RAAF Foloiafe Green was very close in colour to RAF Dark Green, maybe just a shade lighter but not much

Edit.
Played about a bit with the green and came up with this one.









RGB values are 83, 91, 77, but remember all monitors are differant and weathering layers also alter colours

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KRISTORF,

For what it's worth, I thought this one in Moorabbin was a pretty good match:





http://www.ausairpower.net/aarg.html
http://www.clubhyper.com/refer...au21referecebg_1.htm
http://www.aarg.com.au/beaufighter.htm

Thats actually not that far off of the original colour at the beginning of the thread.

But...primer?

Just as a matter of interest what happens to the percieved color in the original skin if you wind up the opacity ? or if its already at 100% duplicate the layer so you have a double layer of foliage green ?

I messed around with colour values and compared with the photos of the Beau from Bee's links above, and came up with this:







Looking at the pictures I think its a more satisfying result, but I really think this sim doesnt render greens very well.

The sim has a limited range of colours - I have learned as much. Since I am not knowledgable on anything regarding allied colours I will refrain from commenting on the foilage green, but I was wondering what RGB values you use for the markings. The white looks pretty pure (255/255/255) as it stands out very much. Toning it down to a light grey usually works wonders in harmonising the colours, same for blue, black, red and yellow (and green, when used for markings).

Yes its pure white for the time being. This is still a WIP for me. The current markings serve only for demonstration right now.

Released them on M4T and FSF this morning.

yeah spotted that ... well done