As said this is a "what if" type scenario.
If Germany, hypotetically, would got involved in the Pacific, participating and helping Japan during WW2, wich type of planes would be used in major numbers, and what type of camouflage and markings are more alike to be used?
This supposing Germany use of land based planes and carrier based planes. (Suposedly on Aircraft Carrier Graf Zeppelin, wich can be faked by the Illustrious in the sim).
I would like to read the opinions of you Camouflage and markings Gurus. Thank you.

The answer is probably "impossible to say". There were camouflage regulations (and they were quite strict, even in the face of the numerous "weird camos" on the Eastern Front) so the fundament for carrier-based planes would probably be initiall the pre-war camo for all seaplanes and planes fulfilling maritime roles (RLM 65 lightblue for the undersides, RLM 72 and 73 for the upper sides), but giving the vastly different colours of the PTO I guess this would change very soon. Into what remains the question, though.

For land-based planes the question is even harder to answer since the landscape and the colours varied so much, that there would probably be several variations ranging from the Eastern Front's "green schemes" to the Western Front's "greys" and into colour ranges I cannot really think of right now.
Concerning marking colours I don't think the LW would change its yellow noses/fuselage bands as they worked in Europe and are familiar to pilots and AAA crews.

Interesting...I'm always in for a "what if". Now, if only someone who knew something were here...

I think the Illustrious is not suitable as Graf Zeppelin fake. The sail is the only part which resembles the Zeppelin well, all other are quite different. The Zeppelin is significantly longer (262.5m) than Illustrious (~229.5m), also the overall appearance does not fit especially the front. To build such a "What if" mission, I use the Shokaku as Graf Zeppelin. Although the sail not fitting 100%, the dimensions are quite similar (262.5m / 257.5m) and the appearance suits much better. And while the camo of the Shokaku is already made for duty in the pacific, the camo of the Illustrious is not.

The early war complement of 50 aircraft would consist of Bf 109T fighters (ingame: Bf 109E-4), Ju 87C dive bombers (ingame: Ju 87B) and Fi 167 torpedo bombers (ingame: Il-2T). Additionally, some Fi 156 for reconnaissance could be added. Late war complement could have been Bf 109G or FW 190A and Ju 87D.

German Task Force could include a Battleship like Bismarck or Tirpitz (ingame: Tirpitz), maybe a flak-cruiser (ingame: Niobe) and several destroyers and support ships.

Camo for the carrier aircraft could be like this Bf 109T-2:

light blue on the sides and blue/gray top surfaces with light blue waves.

~S!~
JDXKiller, very interesting!
Thank you for that. I agree about the Shokaku/Zuikaku can be a better fake for the G.Zeppelin.
Of course the Tirpitz can play the role of a "H" class Battleship and agree about the Niobe as good Task Force escort. The Russian DD type Tashkent is very similar to the class Z German DDs, as is the Type 7. So we can reproduce a German Naval Force.
What about Land based force of Luftwaffe, balanced for the far theatre?

I agree with you that Tashkent and Type 7 are the best fakes for Z-Class Destroyer, although Tashkent beeing a bit to organic shape and Type 7 colors beeing somehow wrong (to much red!)



Luftwaffe land based forces in the Pacific will be obviously stationed on an island, operating mostly over open sea against naval targets. As reference I would suggest X. Fliegerkorps, stationed on Sicily and southern Italy:http://www.ww2.dk/misc/obmed.pdf

Hey Colonel, please check your Private Topics.

Greatings

Simon "Hunin" Phoenix

This is a pretty interesting idea.
I'd like to think that the Germans might adopt some of the Japanese colors to try and blend in a bit better, and who knows what they'd do in terms of camo.
I assume the splinter would probably stay around for a while.

It is rather hard to say how a German aircraft in the pacific would have been camouflaged.
But for the purpose of what if skins for our sim, I think it would be interesting to go with
some of the very early, very broken up paint schemes that are found on lots of the pre-war ac.

I have some pics of a He-111-E from KG1 "Hindenburg" in the colors RLM 61/62/63/65 wich would be (imho) perfect for the PTO and just plain cool looking.
Maybe I'll scan and post it later on.

And whats also important: its different from the greys and greens on german ac we are used to.

Good point.

I'm myself an average skinner, so I will start to play around some German camos to adapt them for the Pacific. Any help will be welcome.
Hunin, got your PM and answered. Check your Emailbox.

cheers

I have allready

Check yours


!S!

Hunin

So here is what I have in mind:



It has all the things it needs:

a) it fits into the PTO

B) it looks hell cool

c) it looks different

So thats a good way to go for any german PTO camo.
But thats all IMHO, of course.

Oh well ... this is the initial pre-war scheme for all LW aircraft. It was abolished in 1939, but a lot of aircraft exported in the 1930s were painted in that scheme.

I don't think it would fit as two of its colours (the brown - which is too dark and reddish in the painting - and the green - which is also too dark) were deleted from the RLM colour charts in early 1939. That meant they weren't produced anymore and weren't issued to painting facilities/workshops/units, either.

Roger that.
IMO, I think that a Gray Camo (RLM 74/75/76)will be well suited for the Pacific, but I want of course to hear your opinion on this.
This camo was introduced in the late BoB stage, and went trough well into mid 1944, when it was replaced by the late war "Greens".

Interesting idea.

I don't think that special colours would have been used, at least not initially. The 70 Bf 109Ts that were built received regulation RLM 74/75/76 colours, although of course, they never got near any carrier.

On the other hand, you never know with the Luftwaffe! Just for fun I made a profile of a hypothetical naval Bf 109T when I made profiles for my book on Bf 109T camouflage and markings. Perhaps I went overboard, but it was for fun!

quote:

Originally posted by HuninMunin:
a) it fits into the PTO

B) it looks hell cool

c) it looks different

These are vital points here! Germans had the coolest camo jobs, there's evry reason to belive a Pacific scheme would be fully up to the German "cool" standard!

That's a nice profile Kjetilman.

It would make an interesting skin. I think it would look great on a carrier deck.
I'd give it a shot but I'm waaay overbooked at the moment.

quote:

Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:

quote:

Originally posted by HuninMunin:
a) it fits into the PTO

B) it looks hell cool

c) it looks different

These are vital points here! Germans had the coolest camo jobs, there's evry reason to belive a Pacific scheme would be fully up to the German "cool" standard!

Exactly!
What attracted me about this particular camo were not the exact colors or the scheme.
And again:
As it is a "what if.." scenario why take the ordinary dark and light greys if there is the freedom to come up with something unusual and sexy looking?!

IMHO mode off

Simon "Godfather of sexy looking camos" Phoenix

quote:

Originally posted by VPB_Kjetilman:
Interesting idea.

I don't think that special colours would have been used, at least not initially. The 70 Bf 109Ts that were built received regulation RLM 74/75/76 colours, although of course, they never got near any carrier.

On the other hand, you never know with the Luftwaffe! Just for fun I made a profile of a hypothetical naval Bf 109T when I made profiles for my book on Bf 109T camouflage and markings. Perhaps I went overboard, but it was for fun!

That's a hell good looking profile, VPB_Kjetilman!!
Definitely:
As originally posted by HuninMunin:

a) it fits into the PTO

B) it looks hell cool

c) it looks different

Hope to see soon a skinpack for this subject, and I can promise it will be included in a "What-if" Campaign that is now in an preliminary development stage.
HuninMunin-Simon "Godfather of sexy looking camos" Phoenix and I are well and seriously looking to make a Campaign about the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine in the South West Pacific and Indian Ocean. And for this, we will need all of you to share your own ideas and toughts on the matter. This will help us to do it better. Every contributor will be properly credited. So if there is someone that likes to mix with mission building, skins, or even writing novels and willing to throw his two cents in this project, be sure Hunin and I will appreciate it.

Thank you.

The more people involved the better!