Dear Ebutoljib,

you sound somewhat like a lawyer for cm11 rather than a user? Is that the case?

You say "Every chess program grabs all the resources it can...."


I am talking about the gui, not the engine. If you have used arena, fritz9, shredder, and chessassitant gui, you will notice that unless the engine are runing, processing resources are generally not being used.

Are you saying that there is not a bug in the chessgame.exe, in that it uses 100% of resources of a single processor when the engine is not running? What is it doing when the engine is not running? I would be curious to hear was sort of sophisticated analyses it needs to take up that sort of resources. And what is the consequence of this on battery life.

I like cm, its a great program.....and I would like to see the bugs fixed. I think we have to acknowledge when things are suboptimal. If we pretend like it is the users fault/responsibility (e.g., all you have to do is change videio cache mode inside bios?), then we get nowhere.

best
J

Hi all. I am sure we all have used other chess software and we all like the Chessmaster series (thats why we bought it :-). I realize that in other programs like Fritz, Shredder, Arena, and CM the chess engines take %100 CPU when looking at the task manager BUT I originally posted this issue in this group because when the other programs use %100 CPU I can still change to another window or move my mouse or read my email but when CM uses %100 my entire machine is frozen until it releases some cycles. For a chess program which is non graphic intensive (I play on a 2D board) I would classify this as a bug. Based on the amount of traffic this post has generated I assume that it is also locking up other peoples computers. Hopefully UBI will look a little deeper into this issue (I will gladly beta test since I can readily reproduce the issue) and provide a fix early in 2008. The changing of the graphic setting in my BIOS helped the issue a little but did not resolve it.

Thanks,
DC

quote:

Originally posted by HalfSigma:
I don't feel like messing around with my BIOS settings (I don't even know how to change them) to fix what seems to be an obvious bug in the program.

It can't be a bug in the program because if it was a bug everyone would be experiencing it. I'd say it would have to be one of three things:

1. a hardware compatibility issue.
2. a driver issue.
3. an issue with other software running in the background.

I'd advise people experiencing this to try running the game with a completely clean boot. If the problem goes away it means some other program is causing the problem. If it's still a problem, try updating drivers. If it's still a problem then it's probably a hardware compatibility issue and you'd have to send a message to Ubisoft tech support including all the details of your system.

As far as I know, no Ubisoft tech support person ever comes here and even if they did they wouldn't be able to solve the problem because so far no one here who is experiencing this issue has posted a detailed rundown of their system specs.

quote:

Originally posted by oozziejoe:
"game.exe using 100% if tge CPU is not the cause...."

The engine using up so many resources gives very few degrees of freedom for anything else to run. It makes problems more likely. this is true even when you set priority low.

If i said the spark caused an explosion, you might argue that the spark did not cause the explosion, because you experience sparks all the time and there is no explosion.

CPUs can run at 100% with no problems. What causes problems is not CPUs running at 100%, but CPUs trying to run at 101+%. As such, as I see it, CM11 can't be the problem because CM11 won't demand more than 100% resources. The problem has to be somewhere else.

Beeryus:
- hardware compatibility is OK
- drivers are OK
- in the background is only WinXP
- PC is desktop
Problem must be somewhere else.

How do you know the hardware compatibility is okay? Did you contact Ubisoft or all the hardware manufacturers already? 'Cos they're the only people who would know - and even they might not know for sure. All they could tell you is that the game had or had not been tested using their hardware.

Look, if hardware compatibility is okay, if the drivers are fully updated, if you're only running XP in the background and if I'm running CM11 with no problems (i.e. if it's not a bug) then the only possible explanation is that you're hallucinating, because if all the above is factual then there cannot possibly be a problem.

Now I don't believe you're hallucinating. I believe there's a problem, but it cannot possibly be a bug because I'm not experiencing it. If you've updated your drivers it cannot be a driver issue. If you've experienced the problem after a clean reboot it can't be programs running in the background (unless of course you have a nasty virus or a trojan). All that's left is hardware compatibility, and for that you have to contact Ubisoft. Posting here won't do any good whatsoever if it's a hardware issue.

Have any of you folks having this problem run msconfig? If not, go to the Start menu, click on 'Run', type in msconfig, click on 'OK' and a dialog box will pop up, click on the 'Startup' tab in this dialog box. You'll see a bunch of programs - if any boxes to the left of these programs are checked these programs are running in the background. Click on 'Disable all' then reboot your computer, start the game up again and see if you experience the same issue. If not, then one of those programs running in the background is causing the problem.

Somehow I get the feeling that a lot of these people will not be posting here after doing the above.

This is sounding more like a religious debate than anything else.

The fact that the engine uses 100% of the CPU is well known (just search the forum for all the discussions), but it IS normal behavior. Bad design, perhaps. But it's not a bug. Freezing is another issue altogether, as Ebutaljib has mentioned.

Beeryus has made a good point. Rather than insist that everything is CM's fault, use msconfig and do a clean boot. Most people have no clue as to what programs they're running in the background...

However, I will give exception to Ebutaljib's statement that laptops aren't for playing games. I've never had issues running CM on my single-processor laptop.

I tryied CM11 on another PC and it is running OK. But: CPU is 100% when CM thinks, when it moves, takes 50%! On my computer rises at 100% wit first move an RESIST ON 100% ALL THE TIME and everything is delayed for 30 secs (menu etc), until i close the game ! When game is closed, PC is on 0% an menu responses immediately. Don´t tell me about troyan horses (I use more programs and i´m working with PC 18 years) :-/

quote:

Originally posted by michalkant:
Don´t tell me about troyan horses (I use more programs and i´m working with PC 18 years) :-/

18 years? Me too, but I get blindsided by viruses and trojans all the time. No one's immune, and if you think you are you're fooling yourself.

And I have to agree with Ebutaljib, we're trying to help, but you seem more intent on complaining about the issue than on working out what can be causing it.

quote:

This is my last reply on this subject. I was trying to help you by explaining that 100% CPU usage is normal and is not the cause for the freeze (something else is causing this), but if you don't want to believe me, then have it your way.

It's hard to understand your motivation for for denying that there's a bug in the program.

It's not normal for a program to use 100% CPU when it's not doing anything. Yes, Fritz uses 100% CPU when it's ANALYZING a position, but not when you're just going about the interface.

It's pretty obvious that a runaway process that uses 100% CPU can cause slow response, because it doesn't leave any resources for anything else.

The question is, will Ubisoft DO ANYTHING about this? Will an actual programmer from Ubisoft condescend to actually comment on this forum?

Hi guys,

My chessmaster was running unplayable slow.
I looked at the processes and like everyone here I thought the 100% cpu was the cause.
As the ubisoft people already said, this is apperantly normal for chessmaster.

I found the solution to my problem.
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=42210...141037026#9141037026
It was just the post game analysis that I had to turn of. So preferences->engine->restore defaults and uncheck post game analysis. That did it for me.

regards,
mrxjn

Hi again. With regards to the previous post ... if you have to disable key features of the game in order to actually play the game then there is a bug in the program. You have not found a solution to the problem but you have found a work-around which will allow you to play the game until UBI fixes the bug :-) You did pay to use all of the features of the game, right? Then why are you OK with disabling two key features when you paid for all of the features??? Thanks for the work around but UBI still need to fix something. Perhaps they could monitor the CPU utilization, or whatever is making the computer freeze, and it things are reaching that critical zone then lessen the priotiry of features like post game analysis or mentor or the chess engine, so that we can play the game without disabling anything.

Just my 2 cents,
DC

Hi drcasa,
I understand what you are saying, but I just mention this because this workaround changed the status of the game for me from 'unplayable and completely useless' to 'usable'. So I thought I'd share it with everybody.

The fact that everybody is hammering on that 100% cpu seems to annoy ubisoft a lot because they already said a few times that this has nothing to do with the fact that the game is unplayably slow. (As a matter a fact, I should probably have posted this in another thread with a different subject.)

I'm sure they will look into this once their programmer is out of holidays, meanwhile we should all party and eat turkey and be happy

happy holidays!

Best regards,
mrxjn

quote:

I'm sure they will look into this once their programmer is out of holidays, meanwhile we should all party and eat turkey and be happy

Given the fact that this bug was carried over from CM10000, I think that the manager of the Chessmaster project has decided that this is a bug that's not worth their effort to fix.

Hi everybody! I finally found the answer of CM freezing! There were 2 anti-spyware programs that actually consumed CPU time...All I had to do was to include the game.exe,chessmaster.exe,theking350.exe,theking333.exe,theking350_64.exe
as truted processus and it worked fine for me! No more lagging or freezing! My programs were Spyware Doctor 5.1 (registered version) and ThreatFire (free version)..
So if anybody of you have some freezing problems, look for onguard programs!
Good luck everybody! Thanks for raising this issue!

sorry, trusted programs I meant above!

quote:

Originally posted by bachjunior:
Hi everybody! I finally found the answer of CM freezing! There were 2 anti-spyware programs that actually consumed CPU time...

Yup, slowdowns in any games are usually caused by other software running in the background - programs of which the user is completely unaware. I'm glad you found the problem. Hopefully your experience will convince others to run msconfig and seek out all those 'stealth' programs slowing down their computers.

Hopefully it will also put a stop to all these people who make wild accusations of Ubisoft incompetence without fully testing to see if their own computers are the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by HalfSigma:
The question is, will Ubisoft DO ANYTHING about this? Will an actual programmer from Ubisoft condescend to actually comment on this forum?

Firstly, there's no evidence that it is a problem with CM11, and until people are actually willing to do some simple tests on their systems (like running msconfig and disabling all programs in Startup) their complaints can hardly be taken seriously.

Secondly, it is not a Ubisoft programmer's job to post on this forum. They have more important things to do. Forums like these are not intended to be used as communications platforms between developers and users of the software.

Finally, if people want to contact Ubisoft the 'Contact Us' link is clearly visible at the bottom of each thread. Posting a bug report on a community forum and demanding an official response is about as useful as trying to find a plumber by going into your back yard and yelling "Help, my toilet is leaking!". A plumber may hear, but if so it would be more by accident than by design.

If people go to the CM11 FAQ there's a listing there that talks about optimizing the chess engine. If players follow those guidelines it may solve the problems they're having with slow performance. Here's the FAQ entry:

quote:

Please follow these suggestions to optimize game engine performance:

1. Make sure you run as few programs as possible while playing Chessmaster. The more background programs you have loaded in Windows, the less processing power your system will have to make moves within the game.

As I've said before, to do this, go to the Start menu, click on 'Run', type in msconfig, click on 'OK' and a dialog box will pop up, click on the 'Startup' tab in this dialog box. You'll see a bunch of programs - if any boxes to the left of these programs are checked these programs are running in the background. Click on 'Disable all' then reboot your computer. Now your computer is running from a clean boot.

quote:

2. Use as few child windows as possible. Some of the windows that open within the game can take up a decent amount of CPU time due to either their visual updates or because they might cause a mentor engine instance to be launched.

3. Do not activate the blunder alert feature in the Training Mode. This feature will also launch a mentor engine instance to watch your game.

4. Do not switch to other game modes, or access other game features or dialogs while running a game, and try to avoid adjusting game settings in the middle of the game. Some of these features/dialogs will actually restart any chess engines that may be associated with the current game, causing that memory that these engines has allocated to be destroyed.

5. In the "Piece Movement" tab of the Sound dialog, select "No Sounds." This will prevent the program from taking up a significant portion of time queuing up and playing piece movement sounds.

In these troubled times, when the barril of oil was 100 dollars, came a man bringing the
Real Truth.
He said : to deserve CM11, you have to get rid of your old programs and cloths and
richness.
You have to present yourself naked in front of CM 11, and, maybe you could run it
without freezing your PC.
And, if it doesn't work, then, maybe you can call the Holly Ubi Support.
The women ceased to cry and to twist their hands.
Nobody have thought to that before He came.

Since you were registered on 2003, you could have released the secret before.

My truth is that this program has a serious bug and that Ubi could have simply avoided
these torrents of tears and inks.
They could have given an option to sart the king on a low priority and on the same CPU
that game.exe, and it was finished.
Too easy for them.
They could also have invested to find a real solution to this problem and to the 100%
CPU problem that seems to be related to it. Probably too expensive, what I don't understand anyway.

Peace on you, good game and Happy New Year.

NB: This post is supposed to be read while listening to this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Holst-_mars.ogg