I think the developers might benefit from feedback from those who have played the game and are likely to purchase the next version. So let's start this off:

1. When you play in tournaments, a result box pops up at the end of the game and you are not permitted to copy PGN. This sucks when you want to analyze the game in CM or another program. This should not happen. PGN files are small, so why not have an easy to navigate archive?

2. Tournament games should have the option of being rated. You can't take moves back, sounds official enough to me. It should be rated.

3. There should be a click on the piece, click on the square to move to as a move option. This eliminates mouse slips, which are oh so frustrating especially if your mouse sucks.

4. About every other sports game has a season, even the new UFC game. Why not offer it here? There's also no reinforcement in this game beyond that intrinsic to chess. The closest there is unlocking tournaments. Other than that, everything is on the table. Take the upcoming game "Need for Speed: Shift" for example, a game that could have easily been another boring race car game. However, it used strategies of game reinforcement like getting credit for spinning out other drivers and drafting in order to unlock stuff. There's no reason why a chess game can't do the same thing in a "season" for going far into book, going into an endgame, using a blockade or interference tactic, skewering, upsetting a higher rated player, et cetera. Unlock a board, collect a chess card like of a famous chess player and see their stats. Be sure to show what objectives need to be done. Be creative. You can take this game to another level. I'll be honest, not a big difference between these different versions.

1) Tournament games are automatically saved into a pgn file found in your user folder.

3) Already possible (Preferences--Board settings--Two click moves)

Yes, agreed very good thread
By the way when is chessmaster 12th edition going to be released? Can't wait for it!
Its been over 2 years since we've had Chessmaster GM Edition.

But I would like to see drastic improvement in the online system improved play issue as well as stats counting after win.

I would like to see more animated chess sets. Next-Generation AI. Improved and detailed graphics so that it looks like a photograph. More chess sets and pieces. And more computer levelled opponents

Let me answer Question No. 4:

Chessmaster already has some incentives... for instance, several chess sets are not available until you win a certain number of rated games.

And while the core of Chessmaster Grandmaster Edition is the same as Chessmaster 10th Edition, don't forget the new features such as the online chess variants, mini-games, or correspondence chess.

Before declaring Chessmaster boring, I highly suggest you look at the wealth of features that many users forget about... have you looked at all the tutorials, drills, Larry Evans' Endgame Quiz, or Bruce Pandolfini's Rating Exams? Have you played through any of the Famous games, or used the Database features?

There are several things that users would like to see enhanced and/or fixed (such as Online Play) before anything that "takes it to another level".

I agree with you.
Although really I know that we've got so many features in CM 11 however its no excuse really for CM 12 to be the same as CM 11.

Afterall Chessmaster is a game that releases a new version every once in 3 years. So you'd expect in 3 years time Ubi to develop and improve a game that is completely revamped from the older one.

I am disappointed that CM 10 is the same as CM 11 but just simply a new skin and cover. That's it there's nothing new. And I feel honestly betrayed and saddened by this

And I hope CM 12 won't let us down like that because its really unacceptable.

And I understand that the online play must be improved.
However, don't you think that Chessmaster CM 11 should have had a 3rd patch for it to be fixed? Why should we wait till CM 12 just to have an improved online system.

Considering the fact that most video games on the market have superior online play. But to my experience Chessmaster Grandmaster Edition is the only game I have experienced that has such a bad online system where so little number of people come to play online, stats don't record, etc, etc

And im not being like all too negative I love CM and its great however the online system needs a lot of improvement im afraid. Most games I play online have a 1000+ players online but CM only has 8-15 players online.

As I mentioned, Chessmaster Grandmaster Edition had a new 64-bit engine, mini-games, online chess variants, and correspondence chess. That being said, I know many people expected more from a new version.

Unfortunately, I can't say if and/or when there will be an update or a new version. I've asked, but was told this information isn't available.

I'm glad this thread is showing to be useful. Thanks, ebutaljib, for pointing out that the two click option is available -- turned that sucker on. Also, I know that it records tournament games, but I was just hoping it could be a little neater. Maybe that part is fine.

As far as unlocking stuff, we should know what there is to unlock. Just playing through, I've got no idea. If there was a view bonus features section, I'd know what I needed to do and what there was to unlock. There seems to be a lot of potential for adding unlockable features, players even. I still say a season feature would be awesome. True good video games have reinforcement value.

Also, looking through the tournaments, what's up with having to play up to 6, 8, and 10 games in a single tournament? Even the real life US Open only makes you play 9 games. With so many tournaments, that's a lot of patience to go through so many games, even if they are only 30-40 minute games.

Like BLaZiNgSPEED said, I'm not trying to knock this game. I really like it. But, because I like it, I'd like to see it get better. I know some extra stuff was added in the version like lectures and famous games. I played through all that and enjoyed it. By the way, why do I have to read text for the famous games? Part of why I like Chessmaster so much is that in the lectures I can keep my focus on the board instead of reading text. Not the case in famous games.

I hope others continue to comment and that they're taken into account for the possible next version. We want you to succeed as much as you do. While having some more lectures and online features is nice (by all means include as many as you like), this does not make it a new game. I certainly hope the next version does more than that. A new version of Fritz can be warranted with an engine upgrade, but Chessmaster does not seem like that kind of game. Other games don't release another edition when they think of another level they should have added. I hope this idea is clear. Thanks.

quote:

As far as unlocking stuff, we should know what there is to unlock. Just playing through, I've got no idea. If there was a view bonus features section, I'd know what I needed to do and what there was to unlock.

The User's Manual does mention that some sets are locked until a certain number of rated games are won. I do like your idea about a bonus features section, though.

quote:

True good video games have reinforcement value.

Well, not necessarily. In this case, I think you may be right; but that's what the tutorials, drills, quizes and exams are for... if those aren't positive reinforcement, I don't know what is.

quote:

Also, looking through the tournaments, what's up with having to play up to 6, 8, and 10 games in a single tournament? Even the real life US Open only makes you play 9 games. With so many tournaments, that's a lot of patience to go through so many games, even if they are only 30-40 minute games.

True... but again, you don't have to watch the games between personalities. For these games, ask for a quick result.

quote:

While having some more lectures and online features is nice (by all means include as many as you like), this does not make it a new game.

I would agree with this as well. However, if you would ask most users what they would like to see, the answer would most likely be "Fix Online Play!" A new version that guaranteed quality Online Play -- proven by a demo before the release -- would, in my opinion, be well worth the price.

quote:

A new version of Fritz can be warranted with an engine upgrade, but Chessmaster does not seem like that kind of game.

I have to disagree. A 64-bit engine is a big improvement. However, I am curious... why would Fritz be different in this respect?

Your energy taken in going through comments is appreciated.

The drills & quiz stuff is great, especially for any first time CM player (for others, the little bit extra is appreciated). The positive reinforcement here is just the praise from Josh or the sight of a checkmark after completion. Much of this is reinforcement is intrinsic since you don't really get anything after you do all or a section of the training (not saying that better players should have to go through the easy section in order to get some type of reinforcement). This could be something unlocked, GM points like from Pandolfini in the movie based on Josh, lots of room for creativity. Again, some kind of storyline or season mode could really make this game interesting and more engaging.

Maybe others are more concerned with the online play, but I think there are other services for that kind of thing like Free Internet Chess Server. I don't think of this like a Halo game or something where there is no other place to play Halo unless you have the game. I'd much rather see attention on the game itself.

I think most would agree that Fritz and Chessmaster are two totally different kinds of games. People purchase programs like Fritz and Rybka because they are super strong at playing and analyzing (not Fritz's smartass comments). However, this is not why people get Chessmaster.

Fritz can destroy me the same way CM 11 can destroy me. If a game being able to annihilate me ferociously was the only criterion I went on, I wouldn't have gotten CM; I'd stick with Rybka. When I want analysis, I use programs like Rybka. When I want to go through lectures without paying extra, I like CM. Josh is very talented at enjoyably going over games. When I want a simulated tournament, I play CM. The more simulated the better. Even changing the background to match the tournament theme would be good. (Again, tournaments should at least have the option of being rated). Single rated games in themselves is nothing special. Even Fritz has this.

Probably the most important distinction between Fritz and CM is that CM is more engaging. Although there is much room for improvement, CM takes you just beyond, "okay, I'm playing a chess computer." It ventures just into a simulation where you can play in a tournament on a whim. Albeit, this simulation is superficial and can be improved. Probably, the best comparison game I can think of is Majestic Chess, although I don't want to be in some Middle Ages setting with a Super Mario World overhead to select stages. Just create a setting and bring the user to it. There are too many chess programs out there and I don't think another basic chess program is what we want.

Improving the engine and making it 64 bit is good, don't get me wrong. Though, I don't know if that should be the focus of celebration.

Another quick one:

Computer opponents should take more than literally 2 seconds to make 44 moves in a ten minute game. We're supposed to be pretending they're like real players, right? This artificially inflates the difficulty for players that move and think at human speeds. Even if it only takes 1/10 of a second to come up with a move appropriate to the skill level, it can wait an approximated human time to make the move. Also, can the computer ever lose on time? CM players will thank you for this stuff if you all ever come out with CM 12. It really makes a difference.

This has been discussed several times...

Some (but not all) personalities are designed to move very quickly -- according to the old Chessmaster 8000 FAQ, it's a programming "trick" that you can find and exploit to your advantage. Other personalities don't have an opening book, which means they play slower.

A while ago, Ebutaljib made a good point -- if you were playing with a friend, and he/she made a move very quickly, would you say it's not fair or realistic? Of course not.

While the computer's speed might create a sense of urgency to move too quickly, I think that's a problem the player must overcome. Remember the phrase, "Don't move until you see it."

Also, it really wouldn't be feasible to create wait times for the computer... First, all people are different. No two people (even those similarly rated) think at the same speed, so wait times are subjective. And would you make the personality move faster or slower depending on the time left? There are just too many variables...

Even if you did come up with some sort of system, players would want to customize it, or even abuse it to falsely inflate their rating.

So while I understand the desire to make Chessmaster as good as possible, I think this is a case where one must realize that you are playing against a computer and accept some of the drawbacks.

As I've mentioned before, there's only one way to get true human play -- and that is to play with another human.

Burning I think makes some good points.

I understand about the move speed but it is pretty unrealistic at times. Usually someone moving that fast is going to blunder. Instead they are playing fairly accurate and all of the thinking is done on your time. A few seconds of delay here and there would make it feel more natural. It's not something you need to even allow people to modify except maybe to turn on and off.

I also think I know what he is driving at for the concept of a season. Instead of just playing in a tournament, you play in a series of tournaments. CM selects the tournament field at each event and you score, let's say, Grand Prix points for how you do. If you score enough you get to play for the National Championship or something similar. To keep it reasonable you are only playing for your section championship so you are always matched with competitors you can actually beat.

My personal request is that they finally get voice command support. Who wouldn't like to just say your moves?

As pointed out above, CM isn't going to win the market that buys Fritz, et al. But, it does have the best chess interface around and the personality player concept has gotten better. If I were UBI, I would focus on (a) enhance the interface, (b) do anything and everything to make the personalities even more interactive, and (c) keep adding to the extras.

They should just forget online play unless it is to tie into an already well known internet chess server. They can't compete.

Regarding time, one thing that would be quite simple would be to take "moving" time from any computer player. You may have noticed that once the computer has decided to move, YOUR time starts ticking. So if you prefer the "sliding pieces" option, that's on your dime, not the computer's. And if you're playing those 10 minutes tournament games, you can easily burn a minute or two just physically moving the pieces ... the computer suffers no such penalty.

You're mistaken -- the personality doesn't move on your time; your clock starts only after the personality has completed its move.

Granted, the computer moves very quickly, and it never has to worry about a stuck key or a "mouse slip"; but that's one of the concessions you make when playing chess against a computer.

Alright, I guess the clock turns off altogether while the computer is moving. Still, it would be easy to keep the computer's clock ticking while it moved, it would add to the realism, and solve some people's complaints about the computer never running out of time. The user could just use the "Sliding Pieces" option to change between a computer moving fast or slow.