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This is hardly a major bug, but it might be something to consider looking at for the next chessmaster.
I play 10-minute games against CM personalities and despite playing hundreds of such games I've never won one on time. The personalities will happily fritter away their time until they're down to their last 3 mins or so, but then they play each move almost instantaneously. Obviously human players play very fast when low on time too, however, with human players the standard of their play goes down the less time they use, but this is not apparent with the personalities. e.g. Last night I played Annie (1537), and got into the endgame win a rook, bishop and 5 pawns against her rook and 3 pawns. I also had 5 mins on my clock to her 2. But unfortunately, her defence from there was very solid, even though every move she was doing was taking her about 1 second. Eventually I lost on time.  |
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Chessmaster Moderator |
Again, this is not a bug. As long as the personality is within the time controls you specified for the game, the computer is free to use the time as it decides it needs to.
And yes, it's understandable that the personality might play better (and faster) during the last few moves of the endgame. Less possible moves equals less searching, which means a faster response. Granted, it's faster than a human, but a personality is only an approximation at human play... it's still a computer.   |
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Nobody has ever won a game against computer on time
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Never say never, especially when talking about computers and programs
 For example, computer (CM) CAN lose on time. Try to give him 1 sek of time for the whole game and his time will become negative at one point (he loses the game). |
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Then why give him that one second at all?
Besides, you can't give him only 1 second for the whole game. |
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Why? Just to prove the theory. Ok. As I remember the minimum is actually 5 sec. but that doesn't matter because he can still lose on time. And 5 sec. is also very much time for the computer especially if he is a high rated opponent. |
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OK, I said "[it] is hardly a major bug" implying I think it's a bug. I don't actually think it's a bug. It's just a characteristic of the program that makes the computer personalities seem more computer-like and less human. All I'm saying is, an ideal simulation of a human would play quicker, and worse, as its time ran out. So it's a possible area of improvement for the next chessmaster. On the whole though the idea and execution of personalities is great! It's satisfying beating someone with a smug picture, and you really notice the different playing styles. |
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Chessmaster Moderator |
I didn't mean to downplay your suggestion; I'm just saying that it works as designed, meaning it's not a bug.
However, just because it works as designed doesn't mean that it can't be improved on. I like your idea of a personality that makes mistakes in the last few minutes of a game... |
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I also think that this behavior is a bit odd. For example, if you play a 10 minute game against a weaker personality, quite often they need only seconds to play the whole game. Thus the point of having a timer is useless. Essentially the computer personalities have unlimited time while the player does not. This is unfair un-fun, and frustrating. Now you might say 'just change the timer!' I do, I always type 99 minutes, so that I have unlimited time as well. However some game modes such as the tournaments have fixed timer settings.
The time it takes a personality to complete a move should be a variable range. For example, the personalities that are ~200 elo, which are supposed to be children, might have an average move time of 5 seconds (because they dont think that much before they move). A master like Tal could have a much greater range. I have read a quote where once he took 40 minutes for a single move! This might be a little excessive, but the point is clear i think. The attraction of the personalities is that they mimic real opponents, not just a computer. In fact, maybe it would be fun to have computer personalities as well. One such could be 'Apple IIe' with a avatar to boot. In any case it hardly seems fair that human players have the time limit and the computer does not. |
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Chessmaster Moderator |
The computer does have a time limit; but as I mentioned before, the computer can take as fast (or as long) as it needs to, as long as it remains within the time controls for the game. So it is fair. I don't see how it makes games "un-fun", either.
Once again: if you played against a real person and he/she moved very fast, would you get upset? Unless you're a poor sport, the answer is most likely no. The time it takes a personality to move depends on many things, such as search depth. Lower-rated personalities have a very low search depth, higher-rated personalities search much deeper. For instance, I've played several games against the Kasparov personality where it takes several minutes to make a single move (my time controls were 40 moves in two hours). By the way no one (at least anyone who lives in the present) uses an Apple IIe anymore. |
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I have defeated many of the computer opponents on time. I have actually found they often don't use their time wisely enough. (e.g taking so long on obvious recaptures) The trick is to get the structure into "a drawn position" with an option for you to make an unsound sac. avoid 50 move draws and threefold repitions, and most of all, WHILE AVOIDING these, make only moves that don't seem to threaten anything. The computer will waste too much time evaluating, then when you get it really low, make moves that actually threaten something, no matter how unlikely. THEN the computer is forced to actually calculate. IF you can get the time low enough, you can sometimes make an unsound sac to start the move count over again, or "give" the computer a winning position when it doesn't have enough time to mate you! Be carefull though, I have actually LOST way more games by attempting this.
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1. So this is constructive criticism, in the spirit of letting the powers that be know exactly what I like and do not like about the game. I like quite alot, but the time limit I do not. I am not super talented, and I play opponents 800-1200 ratings in the game. Some opponents play a 60 move game in under 5 seconds. That is inhuman. Maybe I am not being clear? Let us take the tournament play as an example, along with myself (being the chess noob that I am). Take the 'under the tree' tournament in the game (or whatever tourney has a range of 600-1000 and a time limit of 10 minutes). Sure the opponents are easy. However, it is frustrating when I have to worry about the time limit, and I actually have time pressure (against opponents 800 and above, lesser opponents just play silly) while the computer opponents do not. I get down to 3 minutes and the opponent still has 9:59 left of the clock. Call me stupid, ok fine. Call me a poor chess player, whatever. This is not a chess tournament, it is a video game. Each game, from pong to fallout 3 or whatever, has its own universe, with its own rules. You expect radiation in Fallout when you see green goo. In Chessmaster, you expect the universe to have rules that imitate actual chess games. The timer does not do this, thus the "un-fun" aspect I mentioned earlier. Now this is just my opinion (which is shared by many from what I gather from these forums). 2. If a real person played 50 moves in under a second, yes I would be upset. Or under five seconds. Or heck even ten. 3. Yes and no one plays against Tal either. He is dead (and Josh is older than 8, etc). This is the charm of the game, you get to play against personalities of time past. Why not have the easy computer opponent be an apple iie? The hardest one could be a Cray (or whatever is fastest now, I forgot). In any case, I hope that I have brought some clarity to my earlier post. I am not ranting, but trying to add something to the discussion. At first I thought the time limit problem was a bug. Turns out it is just a game design flaw. AI is after all the most difficult aspect of a game to program. |
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Everybody must understand that you are only master of your own time, not your opponents. He can do what he wants with his own time, like you can with yours.
Ever thought that their fast play (and thus your lack of time) is part of their rating? If you can not defeat such an instant moving personality within 10 minutes, then maybe your are just not strong enough? |
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Chessmaster Moderator |
You're a newcomer to the game, and yet you expect to beat a computer easily? You're not being very realistic. Time limits are a part of playing computer chess. As I've explained on other threads, you could set the time contols to unlimited, but then the computer would take unlimited time -- and it would be anyone's guess on how long it would take for the computer to finish it's move. You could also play with separate time controls, but that would be unfair. If you'd get upset because a person might move faster than you, then you have a real problem. It happens in the real world all the time. Last week, I visited the local chess club, and many people move extremely fast. It's part skill, part pyschological intimidation of your opponent. The key is to ignore your opponent's time, and focus on your own. As far as the Apple IIe personality, you have me there. However, I still think there's more "charm" in playing a computer version of long-deceased grandmaster than an old personal computer. Perhaps they might consider a personality based on Deep Blue (although I think IBM wouldn't allow it). As to your last statement: For a self-proclaimed chess "noob" to say there are design flaws in the game -- when your mistakes have been pointed out -- is poor sportsmanship. As Ebutaljib said, perhaps you should acknowledge your own limitatons. |
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Yes that's very true I agree with KHollister!
 The best way is to avoid playing speed chess or setting time to 1 minute, etc this would perhaps be more dedicated to the more experienced players. You'll get there soon but it will take you years of practice. I'll give you a tip, set the time to 30 min and incrementation to something like 5-10 increase after every move. Your opponent will move slower. As a matter of fact it is a good thing that the computer is moving faster, I loved to hear that.  Because that actually makes my life easier when playing the game. This is Chess, not Assassins Creed! And Chess is a game that involves a lot of thinking. Its not a simple game like 90% of the other ubi video games out there. Perhaps you can try to play the game online too? Cos really I can assure you the computer opponent is not a cheater, its just very wise. You can test your skills online against some beginner too and see how it goes, at least you'll notice that most human players play like the computer except for the very high levels like Chessmaster (ofcourse that's perfectly normal and understandable)! Anyway, good luck!  |
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