I had been a great fan of theirs (because of Baldur's Gate 1 & 2) but after I ventured on their forums this has changed.
I haven't come across such an arrogant company ever.
To make a long story short, their moderation policy is absurd. They ban people for simply not liking their game/s. If you express negative opinions about their game.. there you are- on the ban list. It's unbelievable. Closing topics, deleting them, that's how they handle "bad publicity".
Recently, I started a topic about the release date of one of their games in development, since the producer of the game in question has stated in an interview that it will be released in late 07/early 08. But, as Bioware didn't "officially" state the release date the thread got DELETED. So it's ok, by their standars, if a gaming-site asks about the release date and on the other hand if the same thing has been asked by a fan it's simply delete-material (because that's called "speculation" suddenly).
Just to let you know if you intend to buy their games.. they treat customers like *hit.
They don't have any respect for the people that let them exist (that's us, the buyers).
No wonder that out of the 3,5 millions users registered on their site only 200-300 max (2/3 being guests) are online, people probably post once, see how big morons they are, and then go away.
I will quote the lead writer/designer (because they also post in their forums) so you can see an example of their level of arrogancy:
David Gaider (lead writer): "Feel free to speculate, as well as argue. Just don't be an a** about it. I, on the other hand, I may decide to be an a** if I wish, on immersion or any other topic. But that's because this is my house and YOU are the guest here. And because life's not fair."
http://forums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=567938&forum=84&sp=60
That's a person who clearly doesn't understand the customer-seller relation. Oh, by the way, that topic got closed. Big shock, I know. :roll eyes:

The good parts of baldurs gate came from black isle studios.., nwn was ****, nwn2 was crapper.

Games developed by black isles:
- Fallout
- Fallout 2
- Planescape: Torment
- Icewind Dale
- Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter
- Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter - Trials of the Luremaster
- Icewind Dale II
- Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader
- Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance II

Bioware games with assistance from black isle are:
- Baldur's Gate 1998
- Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast
- Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
- Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal

Personally ive never had any trouble with bioware, except for when i tried to purchase the infinite dungeons module for nwn & they didnt have a single purchase method available to me because they only accept credit card payments.

I rarely visit the Bioware forum because their interface is very crappy. I did frequent the PlanetBaldursGate forum for a time though (about 6 years ago). Yes, David Gaider did come across to be an arrogant and ill-tempered person, but he seemed within reasonable limits (6 years ago).

Anyway, care to give the appropriate threads?

Ah yes, NWN2 is a very crappy game. Extremely poor role-playing and has a KOTO2-ish flavoured (which sucks).

Obsidian Entertainment apparently has a tendency of ruining well-established games developed by other groups (NWN and KOTOR1). Even the eccentric nival designers are a far-cry to OE's game-destroying designs.

quote:

To make a long story short, their moderation policy is absurd. They ban people for simply not liking their game/s. If you express negative opinions about their game.. there you are- on the ban list. It's unbelievable. Closing topics, deleting them, that's how they handle "bad publicity".

Uh, how long have you been there? I've been there for 3 years. Honestly, I don't see it that way. The only times I see topics closed and/or deleted is when it gets out of hand and it's a rant-fest there. If you whine, ***** and rant there all day long you'll get banned. Fair game if you ask me.

quote:

Recently, I started a topic about the release date of one of their games in development, since the producer of the game in question has stated in an interview that it will be released in late 07/early 08. But, as Bioware didn't "officially" state the release date the thread got DELETED. So it's ok, by their standars, if a gaming-site asks about the release date and on the other hand if the same thing has been asked by a fan it's simply delete-material (because that's called "speculation" suddenly).

Go to Epic Games' forums. The Unreal Tournament 3 section more specifically. You'll notice the same thing there. Every release date thread gets whack with a close/delete stick. They've spilled a bean or 2 in interviews as well, but they still go by "when it's done".

quote:

David Gaider (lead writer): "Feel free to speculate, as well as argue. Just don't be an a** about it. I, on the other hand, I may decide to be an a** if I wish, on immersion or any other topic. But that's because this is my house and YOU are the guest here. And because life's not fair."

LOL. Good attitude. He is actually right. If you break the ToU/Be a an amoral ass, then he has every right to set the mods on you. Anyone does, actually, that's why the Report button exists, you see.

quote:

Originally posted by ywhtptgtfo1:
I rarely visit the Bioware forum because their interface is very crappy. I did frequent the PlanetBaldursGate forum for a time though (about 6 years ago). Yes, David Gaider did come across to be an arrogant and ill-tempered person, but he seemed within reasonable limits (6 years ago).

Anyway, care to give the appropriate threads?

Of course.
http://forums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=569270&forum=84 (a "gaf" when it's clearly not)
http://forums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=567938&forum=84 (the "funny" stuff starts around the 3rd page)
There are also other topics in which people contest Bioware behavior but I'll add them later maybe.

The thing that really annoys me is their strawman attitude (worse than JJ's).. If you make a topic about something specific about their game (which maybe they don't want to disclose right now), they'll start posting about idiotic things (like "zombie-kittens") totally unrelated to the question asked, while at the same time they close topics if they've gone off-topic.
Can you imagine this *hit.. You open a topic in which you state that their PRODUCER gave an approximate release date in an interview (with the link also) and after 3 pages of arguments it suddenly got deleted with the explanation given in the first link I've posted.
How is it speculation when the PRODUCER/PROJECT DIRECTOR (read with comprehension Oak) states that their game will be released in about 1 year!? Is he a moron or what? But since they've been beaten with arguments they must delete the topic so no evidence is left.

I also hate NWN, Jade and KotoR, after the BG era they've been producing this incredibly linear ****. I hate linearity in rpg games. Go from A to B, from B to C. Nothing to explore outside the plot related areas, all is tied to the main plot and you can't go back to previously visited places. No world at all, just a story. It makes me vomit.

And no Oak, it's not ok if they act like immature arrogant kids. There's something called professionalism and respect for customers.
They should definitely be more polite and shouldn't use censore as their only argument since WE buy their games and not the other way around. Our money > Bioware.
This has nothing to do with ToU Oak because since when is it in Canada forbidden to express your opinion WITHOUT the use of offensive language? They close/delete if they don't like your comment (mostly beacause it's negative/argumentative), but if you're a person who just sits there to praise their games (like you do I suppose) then they won't touch you of course.
Here at Ubisoft we have little angels compared to them. At least Muadib/Acheval are polite with us, like they should be.

quote:

Originally posted by Plemenit:

And no Oak, it's not ok if they act like immature arrogant kids. There's something called professionalism and respect for customers.
They should definitely be more polite and shouldn't use censore as their only argument since WE buy their games and not the other way around. Our money > Bioware.
This has nothing to do with ToU Oak because since when is it in Canada forbidden to express your opinion WITHOUT the use of offensive language? They close/delete if they don't like your comment (mostly beacause it's negative/argumentative), but if you're a person who just sits there to praise their games (like you do I suppose) then they won't touch you of course.
Here at Ubisoft we have little angels compared to them. At least Muadib/Acheval are polite with us, like they should be.

As it just so happens, we had an info-session at work one week ago. Basically we (the floor workers) get updated on how it goes with the company because the company believes that if you know where the problems are, you can already do something about it as an individual on the work floor.

Anyway, one of the questions our director asked us was; who pays our salary.

You know what the right answer was? Not the company, not the parent company that bought us out 2 years ago. No, the right answer was, ‘the client.’

Quality care and customer binding doesn’t stop with the sale of a product. No, you keep the customer happy. If a game maker is in contact with the fans over forum than he should stay polite and ‘understanding’ no matter what kind of reactions he gets. If someone is creaming at him telling him that he is a liar and doesn’t care about the customers than he should assure them in the most assuring and soothing voice possible that this is not the case.

If at the mean time he is thinking that the annoying SOB that is accusing him of lying should die and go to hell on an express buss... well, those are his private thoughts.

A game maker should never say things like ‘that is none of your damn business. No, he should say, ‘we cannot tell that because it would ruin some interesting surprises’... and at the same time THINK ‘that is none of your damn business.’

Bottom line is, we the clients that buy their games, are paying their wages and in return for that they should pat us on the head and tell us how much we are appreciated and how much we mean to them...

Of course, they are totally free to THINK ‘die, die, die,’ ad the same time while they are patting us on the head.

H.W.

quote:

David Gaider (lead writer): "Feel free to speculate, as well as argue. Just don't be an a** about it. I, on the other hand, I may decide to be an a** if I wish, on immersion or any other topic. But that's because this is my house and YOU are the guest here. And because life's not fair."
http://forums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=567938&forum=84&sp=60
That's a person who clearly doesn't understand the customer-seller relation. Oh, by the way, that topic got closed. Big shock, I know. :roll eyes:

got to like that person
- Somehow he reminds me of FCY.

I must admit I like all their games, although I would prefeer it if they were longer and had a bit of freedom, but they are still some of the best of the new games... Nothing beats the good old ones though

It's by the way not all that rare that people, especially DM people around here (although there are worse forums on the Ubi server), say the same about Ubi as you say about Bioware...

quote:

Originally posted by Justice:

got to like that person

Really, what's there to like about an arrogant, ill-mannered self-righteous DEVELOPER who posts on the forums of his company things like that (as a DEVELOPER!)? And oh, whenever he (or other Bio staff members) posts in a topic, there's a big "B" near the topic.. So that you know insults are there if you said something he doesn't like.

Yes, alias-hw, that's exactly it. They act like they DON'T exist thanks to us who buy their games. Not only that, they even insult you and roll their little angry eyes if they don't agree with you. Deleting/closing topics if they don't like what's been told in them so far is also common practice..

Because he is delightfully un-orthodox. Honest, seems like he has a good sense of humour, self-righteous in a funny matter of factly way and so on. A great exception from the everyday false politeness and lies

quote:

Originally posted by Justice:
Because he is delightfully un-orthodox. Honest, seems like he has a good sense of humour, self-righteous in a funny matter of factly way and so on. A great exception from the everyday false politeness and lies

No, he's just not polite. And mediocre in everything else. But of course, viewpoints are different.
I have nothing against him being not polite (who cares)... but then ffs don't close/delete every topic you deem argumentative or not polite! Same rules for all, anyone?

Yep, different viwpoints so let's just agree on disagreeing

I tryed to read all that... but at the 4th post my eyes fell out... gonna read later... and if I ever make a game I would glomp anyone who buys it.

Oh, and god forbid you mention other games on their forums.. CLOSE/DELETE instantly. I remember how there were several topics here about other games (in the main Heroes of M&M forum) and nobody touched them. If you start to discuss another game there (at Biowank) even just to compare it with some aspect of their games- "OFF TOPIC"-->LOCK DOWN.

***

I want to do something.. I would like to open synchronously "a few" topics on their forum with the help of a few other people (the more the merrier). Just to let them know and make them work a bit.
PM me if you're interested.

Would be fun

quote:

Really, what's there to like about an arrogant, ill-mannered self-righteous DEVELOPER who posts on the forums of his company things like that (as a DEVELOPER!)? And oh, whenever he (or other Bio staff members) posts in a topic, there's a big "B" near the topic.. So that you know insults are there if you said something he doesn't like.

The big B is, well, wtf is wrong with that? I sure as heck wanna know if a dev has posted in a thread.
And you did see the next to his "message", right?

quote:

Because he is delightfully un-orthodox. Honest, seems like he has a good sense of humour, self-righteous in a funny matter of factly way and so on. A great exception from the everyday false politeness and lies

Exactly

quote:

Oh, and god forbid you mention other games on their forums.. CLOSE/DELETE instantly. I remember how there were several topics here about other games (in the main Heroes of M&M forum) and nobody touched them. If you start to discuss another game there (at Biowank) even just to compare it with some aspect of their games- "OFF TOPIC"-->LOCK DOWN.

That's because we have lazy mods
No offense!
And they have a separate forum for other games, etc. And comparing games, it's the apples and oranges. The discussion would lead nowhere, but to the bickering trolls, sure, you'll have plenty of those in there when the more aggressive discussion starts

quote:

Originally posted by Oakwarrior:


The big B is, well, wtf is wrong with that? I sure as heck wanna know if a dev has posted in a thread.

There would be nothing wrong with it if they'd start to post something informative and stay polite like all other "normal" forum members have to.
Now this "B" to me means just "B*****d-posting".

quote:

And you did see the next to his "message", right?

A "" can't cancel the meaning of what has been said.

quote:

Oak:

quote:

Justice: Because he is delightfully un-orthodox. Honest, seems like he has a good sense of humour, self-righteous in a funny matter of factly way and so on. A great exception from the everyday false politeness and lies

Exactly

Yeah, yeah, so very exactly, nice and funny.
Lets start offending each other, so funny so funny.. But then I want all to be treated equally; not letting the offences of one side stay untouched while censoring the other side.

quote:

And they have a separate forum for other games, etc.

Oh, yes, 1 forum named "Off-topic" out of 30 other focused on their games only.
And even there it's not allowed to discuss about everything. For example, they've decided there should be no more topics about MMO so they've been closing every MMO topic ever since (because of WoW and other competition probably since they're developing their own MMO ). Can it be more absurd than that?

As I've said, no wonder out of the 3,5 million registered users they have only 200-300 people online maximally.

"And comparing games, it's the apples and oranges."

Oh my, this is such a stupid statement. What will you compare games to? To dishwashers? To other games of course, sweety.

I actually think plem is onto something here...
Me no likey Bioware either.... even Ive been banned over there but that was due to a powerhungry mod being an ass so I told him to shove it.

And I personally acredit everything good about BG1 and BG2 to Black Isle... I mean come on, its evident who made the plots if anyone has played Planescape or Fallout...

It's their forum. Nothing public about that, so why care at all what Bioware do with it?

I never had any problems with those guys. Devs occasionally talk about the games, chat with forum rats; they don't have to.
Also if you managed to get banned there you prolly made an effort.

Besides, the HoMM and M&M communities here are very loud and aggressive.

quote:

That's because we have lazy mods
No offense!
And they have a separate forum for other games, etc. And comparing games, it's the apples and oranges. The discussion would lead nowhere, but to the bickering trolls, sure, you'll have plenty of those in there when the more aggressive discussion starts