Blog: Rant: Games for Young Girls- Get Over your Beef! by Valkyrie

I really admire that there are more girlie games out there for young girls. Even though I love my first person shooters and action/ adventure games, I like some "wimpy" games too. Like Harvest Moon and Animal Crossing.

I'd love to see more and more girls get into the gaming industry, and getting them started at a young age with fashion and pet games is a great start. These young girls could be potential future Frag Dolls, you know.

What I want to know is who is the stupid person in marketting that decides to demo these games at an event that is mostly 15+ males. This has been my beef with the FDs claim that they are trying to promote women in gaming (although of no fault of the individual girls). The majority of events you girls get sent to are not events where you will find that many girls who are not already into gaming.

While no one should attack you at a conference, I have to wonder why you are so defensive or surprised about the reaction you got.

The previous commenter is correct in that this game probably shouldn't be shown at places where little kids may not be. There are ample opportunities to show these games to the proper audience, Nintendo creates these opportunities all the time by doing events with Boys and Girls Clubs or other organizations before a launch of a title.

In weirdly coincidental timing, I was invited to be on a great group podcast with a group of amazing women from different backgrounds and different websites. We spoke about the topic of "Games for Girls", and I think it would be great to get your feedback on it. You can see it here - GTR Podcast.

An important point you make is that games CAN be a gateway for young girls. That is completely true. But that is only true if the games are made well and the girls have a good experience playing them. I've seen far too often, games made for girls that have horrific controls or mini-games that make no sense. In this way, the game is almost insulting to the young girl because it assumes she doesn't need better or want more from her games.

Just because something sells well, does not mean it can't strive to be better. It does not mean that a company should not strive for better.

I am excited about the new Style Lab line because it encourages creativity. Games that encourage creativity are what young girls love and I think any young person should be constantly encouraged to be creative.

Why do I care? Why do I speak about it? Because I want to see those young girls grow up wanting to play games. Wanting to be in the game industry. Inspired to take programming classes. This is important to the growth of the industry. We can only assure that growth if we as adults, make sure that the experience our young girls are having is a positive one.

Sorry for being overly wordy, but you know me and I'm pretty passionate about gaming. ^_^

Thank you for writing about this and I do apologize for the behavior people displayed to you at the con. One can't hope for change if they can't intelligently have a conversation about a topic. By just making fun of, or saying mean things does nothing to solve the problem.

*hugs*
Trina
GamingAngels.com
(these are my opinions and not GamingAngels.com opinions)

Well said Amy!

And lets not forget that before these games are even produced the companies set up focus groups to find out exactly what their target audience wants in a game. So it's not like these companies are pushing these games on girls; they're creating a game based off the little girls wants, feedback/suggestions.

quote:

Originally posted by stonelance:
What I want to know is who is the stupid person in marketting that decides to demo these games at an event that is mostly 15+ males. This has been my beef with the FDs claim that they are trying to promote women in gaming (although of no fault of the individual girls). The majority of events you girls get sent to are not events where you will find that many girls who are not already into gaming.

Sometimes it's not about the demographic at that particular event but about the kind of press covering the event.

quote:

And lets not forget that before these games are even produced the companies set up focus groups to find out exactly what their target audience wants in a game. So it's not like these companies are pushing these games on girls; they're creating a game based off the little girls wants, feedback/suggestions.

A few of these games are localized versions of games that have already come out elsewhere. And also, one point that this argument doesn't address, is one brought up by Alice Taylor over at Wonderland Blog:

Research is a funny thing. If you say to someone, what's your favourite food, they'll list three things they love. If you then say, you didn't list chocolate cake, don't you like chocolate cake? They'll say, oh SURE! I love chocolate cake! I just didn't realise you were asking about chocolate cake.

I'm curious just what these focus groups are like. Are they suggestive, or do they let girls just name what they like? I used to say things like lawyer, pediatrician, and president when I was little and asked about careers. Where's Imagine:President?

As a woman who got into gaming very early (around 3-4) and loves playing to this very day, it's almost a slap in the face to even try with these games. They're so stereotypical. Where's our Imagine:Science Teacher? Imagine:Archaeologist? Imagine:Lawyer? And whatever happened to just making good games, games that will appeal to those who are interested in the genre they represent, games with good stories, strong characters, or just overall well-made games? Why should there even be an artificially created "need" to plum this niche other than pure $$$? Telling people to blame society is a cop out. Sure, these stereotypes are a product of society, but there's no need to reinforce them. It's the same whether it's Imagine: Babyz or the toy mop and vacuum set that my cousin received as a gift.

The problem is with society, but we are free to speak out on the things we feel might be contributing to the problem. Why artificially separate and other young girls by basically saying these games are for you and by doing so, sending the implicit message that 'these other games are not'?

After all, we did just fine finding our love for gaming without everything being cherry-picked and separated out.

quote:

Originally posted by brookelyn_FD:

quote:

Originally posted by stonelance:
What I want to know is who is the stupid person in marketting that decides to demo these games at an event that is mostly 15+ males. This has been my beef with the FDs claim that they are trying to promote women in gaming (although of no fault of the individual girls). The majority of events you girls get sent to are not events where you will find that many girls who are not already into gaming.

Sometimes it's not about the demographic at that particular event but about the kind of press covering the event.

I see. That makes sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Cerezas:
Where's our Imagine:Science Teacher? Imagine:Archaeologist? Imagine:Lawyer? .

Family Doctor

Imagine Teacher

Imagine Animal Doctor

Imagine Doctor

quote:

Originally posted by Cerezas:

quote:

And lets not forget that before these games are even produced the companies set up focus groups to find out exactly what their target audience wants in a game. So it's not like these companies are pushing these games on girls; they're creating a game based off the little girls wants, feedback/suggestions.

A few of these games are localized versions of games that have already come out elsewhere. And also, one point that this argument doesn't address, is one brought up by Alice Taylor over at Wonderland Blog:

Research is a funny thing. If you say to someone, what's your favourite food, they'll list three things they love. If you then say, you didn't list chocolate cake, don't you like chocolate cake? They'll say, oh SURE! I love chocolate cake! I just didn't realise you were asking about chocolate cake.

I'm curious just what these focus groups are like. Are they suggestive, or do they let girls just name what they like? I used to say things like lawyer, pediatrician, and president when I was little and asked about careers. Where's Imagine:President?

As a woman who got into gaming very early (around 3-4) and loves playing to this very day, it's almost a slap in the face to even try with these games. They're so stereotypical. Where's our Imagine:Science Teacher? Imagine:Archaeologist? Imagine:Lawyer? And whatever happened to just making good games, games that will appeal to those who are interested in the genre they represent, games with good stories, strong characters, or just overall well-made games? Why should there even be an artificially created "need" to plum this niche other than pure $$$? Telling people to blame society is a cop out. Sure, these stereotypes are a product of society, but there's no need to reinforce them. It's the same whether it's Imagine: Babyz or the toy mop and vacuum set that my cousin received as a gift.

The problem is with society, but we are free to speak out on the things we feel might be contributing to the problem. Why artificially separate and other young girls by basically saying these games are for you and by doing so, sending the implicit message that 'these other games are not'?

After all, we did just fine finding our love for gaming without everything being cherry-picked and separated out.

All I know is I only wish I had some of these imagine games when I was young.

I actually enjoy playing them. I love to customize, level up and unlock items!

Great blog Amy. I am excited about the Style Lab: Jewelry Design It is a great game. I love that you can create real jewelry. That is awesome.

I wish I had some of these games too Brooke. My parents would have approved of these for sure.

I personally love little girl games lol. Anytime my nieces come over I ransack their game cases and pop them in my DSi

As an avid gamer and a father of a young girl I really relate to what you're saying. Unlike a lot of "parents" I actually take an interest in what my daughter (9) is into. I'll watch her shows with her, play her games (video or other) and her movies.

She loves the Petz games, she's into Miley Cyrus and loves Ratchet & Clank, Sly Cooper and even killing nazi zombies hehe. Speaking of zombies, I picked up Plants Vs. Zombies for myself and she pretty much claimed it as her own. I've even let her play COD WAW online (muted voices).

You can see the diversity in what she considers fun gaming. Just like Valk said in her post.

You know, I think back to my years at Gamestop, years and years ago. A lot of the games we sold I had no interest in. For each copy of Halo we sold we sold a copy of the latest Disney movie game tie in. The different Barbie and wedding planning games on PC at the time were also a lot more popular than you'd think. Truth is people all have different tastes. Even among the same demographic there are very differing tastes. Pretty much everyone on these forums is a hardcore gamer. We are all in the same demographic. But if you asked everyone to write down their number one game of all time you'd find almost everyone had a different answer.

I started gaming when I was three years old. the next Christmas my parents got me a Sinclair Spectrum for Christmas, and pretty much from that point on it was obvious I was going to be a game developer when I grew up. There weren't many games for girls back then. Perhaps if there were we'd see more girls following a similar path as me. There are these games now, so I think there are more girls in school right now treading that path.

I got to teach a 5 day workshop at Otronicon a few years ago. It was titled "Girls in Gaming" and over the 5 days we made a simple but fun game. It was a Mario clone, but with a female avatar, named Marie O. The class was made up of middle school girls, and what they came up with was pretty damn amazing.

The last day was pretty much free reign to make the game how you want it to be, so many of the girls drew new avatars, replacing Marie with an ms paint version of themselves! Oh, and you'd be surprised how good some 13 year old girls are in MS Paint!

Some girls spent that last day making the most awesome and creative levels they could. We had a lot of levels made of coins, and some pretty hectic mazes!

When we were done we'd talk to the girls and see what they thought. "What did you like best? Art? You liked drawing the girl and the monsters? You know there are people that get paid to do that for every game you have ever played? You liked making the levels? That too! There are people that do all this stuff!"

When girls like that get to my age I expect the industry will be a lot more balanced. Once the industry is balanced there will be better representation for every demographic, and games for little girls will be better quality. I don't know what it is like being a 10 year old girl, so all I can do is ask a 10 year old girl and do my best to apply it to a game. We do what we can, and I think we're fairly close as these games are successful, but I doubt I could match someone who has experienced it first hand.

Maybe when there are more effective but less blatant girl games the boys will ease up some, but then boys will always be boys I suppose. I did have a point somewhere in here, but I think I lost it. Meh. I'll just end saying I agree with you Amy and hopefully in time the thoughts of male gamers will change as more females are born into games.

quote:

Originally posted by Cerezas:
Where's our Imagine:Science Teacher? Imagine:Archaeologist? Imagine:Lawyer?

They already have "Imagine: Lawyer" and it's called "Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney."