quote:

Originally posted by GypsyflyPMS:
publicly stones women to death for not accepting an arranged marriage.

Wtf, what country does that exist in? Isn't it being stoned to death for having sexual relations out of wedlock?

Actually, both of those are correct. I have heard of "honour killings" for refusing an arranged marriage. In fact, there have been instances of it with (I believe) Pakistani families that have emigrated from their country to the UK.

It is a common thing to happen to Muslim women who have been 'Westernised'.

A Muslim man in Texas killed both of his own daughters because he did not like them becoming Westernized and he felt that it was causing them to disgrace the family. Why the Fck would he even move his family to this country?

Regarding the topic of conversation, He was given all of those sentences to insure he would not be paroled.

Brimtown; I agree with you regarding the Drug Laws.

Gypsyfly; I agree but think it should be Rapists AND Child Molesters getting their junk cut off as penalty.
You cannot cure these people. That is why they tend to go to other countries like Thailand because there are no laws preventing them from molesting kids.

quote:

Originally posted by zeeEVIL1:
Regarding the topic of conversation, He was given all of those sentences to insure he would not be paroled.

I think most people understand that. The issue is overkill: even with 1/8 the sentence he received, he'd stand no mortal chance of ever getting out on parole.

Think about what 4000 years is. That's past Ancient Greece. Half that? Rome's Empire. Quarter that is still not even medieval times.

Why bother?

quote:

Originally posted by emp_wordsmith:


I think most people understand that.

Yea. That would be a Captain Obvious moment here.

quote:

Why bother?

I see no probem with setting an example. And making it very clear to the next assuming idiot, that he could be next. The courts need to do this more often.

quote:

Originally posted by zeeEVIL1:
A Muslim man in Texas killed both of his own daughters because he did not like them becoming Westernized and he felt that it was causing them to disgrace the family. Why the Fck would he even move his family to this country?

Um, he probably thought they'd heed him and not disgrace the family. Honour killings fall under sharia law; I recently read that a high ranking judge is suggesting aspects of this should be given, hmm, legitimacy over here. Obviously not those extreme elements, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Ninja_Raiden:

quote:

Originally posted by zeeEVIL1:
A Muslim man in Texas killed both of his own daughters because he did not like them becoming Westernized and he felt that it was causing them to disgrace the family. Why the Fck would he even move his family to this country?

Um, he probably thought they'd heed him and not disgrace the family. Honour killings fall under sharia law; I recently read that a high ranking judge is suggesting aspects of this should be given, hmm, legitimacy over here. Obviously not those extreme elements, of course.

The moment they start allowing that kind of crap here is the moment I become a terrorist.
People move to this country they should be accepting of our Laws and Culture. I won't make exceptions for anyone that moves to this country.

@Doc; Don't make fun of Captain Obvious Biatch. I do own a cape.

Funny, that's an argument used by critics of the idea - but it's about respecting that different cultures have, well, differences and trying to find a way of, hmm, integrating that into mainstream society, if you like.

It doesn't mean immigrants can pick and choose which aspects of the law of the land they can choose to obey. As the guy said, parts of sharia law which "fit" with current UK law are the ones which may be integrated. Not such things as stoning etc.

I thought America was a place that lauded diversity.

Diversity IS lauded here.
But...changing the Laws of our country to satisfy a Religious belief Just because members of that group have decided to move to our country is wrong. I don't care what your Religion is.
But if your Religion allows stoning, Honor Killings, Rape or any other inhuman treatment to another human being, then we will have no part of it.
Murder is Murder.
I will take the road the Prime Minister of Australia took. "If you want to move to our Country you will respect and obey our Laws. Do not expect us to change our laws to suit you. If you do not like this then stay the hell out of Australia." Not an exact quote, but a close enough paraphrase to get the point across.

We as a society have gotten to the point where we are always trying to please people.
Screw that.
We are not a perfect Society by any means. But our laws here are easily the most diverse and equally respectful in the world. That is part of why so many people are enamored with American culture. Our laws allow people so much. We also are not ruled by religious beliefs like the Eastern Countries or the Muslim faith for that matter.

If the U.S. with all of its gun loving American Pride spouting Citizens saw this happening, there would be a Civil War in this country and an overthrowing of the Government.

The Sharia want to rule the world and think that ALL people are supposed to be Muslim. This is their belief. I personally will not help them get any closer to achieving that goal.

Besides, any Muslim in the U.S. is already allowed to practice their Religion and live by their Religious beliefs. As long as those beliefs do not conflict with the Laws of the United States.

You see, I am of the belief that if someone wants to immigrate to the U.S.A., they want to do so because they like our Country and want to be a part of it and the system of freedoms that it has set in place.
Not so that WE can change our Laws so that we can make them feel more comfortable here.

Its sort of like making Americans Learn Spanish to make it easier on all of the Spanish immigrants that are in this Country.
Now while I am not against learning Spanish, I do not feel that Americans should be required to learn a second language to live in their own Country of origin.
If I moved to Mexico tomorrow, I had better know how to speak Spanish fluently.
I think the same should go for them if they decide to jump the fence.

AMERICA F YEAH!

Aren't we considered "ugly Americans" when we go to other countries, and expect the people over there to speak our language?

quote:

Originally posted by Brimtown:
Aren't we considered "ugly Americans" when we go to other countries, and expect the people over there to speak our language?

My point exactly.

Pffft. Food, medical care, gaurds, entertainment and utilities for one man for the next 4,000 years? Just another prime example of the fleecing of america... If we reformed this guy and let him go after 3,000 years imagine what we could save...

I'd just like to know what's the plan here? I mean, will his corpse be kept under lock and key or is he just going to be placed under house arrest once he's in a coffin?

Will that coffin be a reasonable distance from any schools?

ZOMBIES!

They could just freeze him.

Zee, Sharia is not a group, it is a set of (religious) laws encompassing every aspect of Muslim life. Not all Muslims follow it, well, religiously, as I understand it. Fundamentalists do, moderates don't - some even wish to see reforms. There are (at least) two factions of Islam, Sunni and Shi'a; do you mean one of them?

When it comes to this judge suggesting such changes, I think it might have something to do with that fact that yesterday was the anniversary of the 7/7 bombings. Or it might be that there is a growing Muslim population in the UK and he sees a need for changes to address that and avoid the radicalisation of young Muslim immigrants by the likes of Abu Hamza. Or perhaps to quell Islamophobia.

"Besides, any Muslim in the U.S. is already allowed to practice their Religion and live by their Religious beliefs. As long as those beliefs do not conflict with the Laws of the United States."

Swap U.S with U.K and that's exactly what the guy's proposing, as long as they don't conflict.

I agree with Zee, sharia law has no place in the US. You do understand that this is a separate legal system, with its own Muslim courts, outside of US or British law.

There are plenty of fundamentalist Christians who would love to see some sort of Christian law imposed in this country as well. There is a very good reason why we have separation of church & state.

Yes, yes I do understand that. Anyway...

Let the guy rot.

They'll just leave his carcass in prison until he's disintegrated.

Well Ninja, I know many moderate Muslims here in Virginia Beach. Many of them own businesses on our Oceanfront resort area. Along with many Jewish business owners.
The Muslims here don't really go for the whole Sharia belief system. By the way I originally wrote Shia and then Edited it to say Sharia in the previous post.

What Brimtown has stated is also true regarding the UK.
I do not care how many people immigrate to America, the Laws should not be changed to make their lives more comfortable from a religious standpoint.
Here we have the separation of Church and State.
This Country was started with Puritans who came here for Religious Freedom. And to hopefully convert more to their belief system.
Sadly the Puritans were very much like many Muslim hardliners or Extremists. They stoned women, They arranged Marriages. They Burned, Beat, Tortured and drowned women whom they thought were Witches.
By the time we got around to truly creating a Country, The founding Fathers decided to create the Separation because they realized that though the Country would be founded on Christian Beliefs, Those beliefs are good for the individual but should not be forced upon someone against their wishes. Doing so would go against the gift of Free Will that God gave to all human kind.
Freedom of Religion was instituted because they had the foresight to see that the Country would be made up of people from all walks of life.

In the middle East, All Laws are based around Religious beliefs. The Clerics have more power over the individual than the Government does.

The UK because of the steps it has taken, will soon see their Country subverted from them through the institution of Sharia Law. Clerics will continue to come to power within the Muslim Community there and the people (many, not all) will follow the word they give and not the UK laws. Then you will begin to see similar things happening there as you do in the Eastern Countries.
Bottom line; You cannot have "Freedom of Religion" for all people once you start creating or Instituting Laws that favor a specific Religious group.

Remember how the Evangelicals were getting in an uproar a couple of years ago regarding putting a monument of the 10 Commandments up in front of a Courthouse. They were flat out told No and they got all ****y about it.
Not only would putting it up be a violation of Church and State but also of Freedom of Religion.
If a Muslim had to go to court at that Courthouse with that monument outside, do you think he would feel like he would get a fair Trial? It would be no different than a Christian going to a Courthouse that had Muslim representation.

Ninja if you were an Alcoholic, and you moved to a Country like say Saudi Arabia where you cannot buy Liqour do you think they would care if you couldn't make it through the day without a drink? No they would tell you to get over it and go find peace in Allah.

You move to my Country. You obey the same Laws as me and do not expect any to be changed to suit you or your group. Period.