quote:

Originally posted by landon_326:
You just put it perfectly MC.

You said, "...what *weapons* they get killed with."

If a pilot shoots me down with literally any weapon in the game other than all aspects, then it is the player's kill. The player.

As soon as the all aspects start flying, it becomes the weapon's kill. The missiles should get the exp, not the player.

And staying out of range is not an acceptable solution. The 'fuzzball' I believe its called; I have the most fun right in the middle of it all, friends and enemies encompassing you. I shouldn't have to lose that, or my 7 streak, because of these missiles.

Anyone else, if you don't want to read any more about whether or not these missiles should be around, well then why are you?

I've never seen lag over the PSN, mostly from midnight to 3 or so eastern. If my MTAAs always actually fired though, that'd been swell.


Smoke

furrball.. not fuzz

and yea allaspects are too manoverable sure 13% damage isnt much but when you have 3 players launching em at you 2 per shot it adds up....fast

and smoke.. you sound familier.....i may have played you back in the day...

still have to get my platinum need sitting ducks still

To get sitting ducks, After you get the EMP strike, get shot down. Then fly up. That will put you far enough away to get the set up you need. Launch one round of MTAAs before activating the EMP. Dang drone destroyer eludes me.

Sorry, furball. I knew it was one or the other. I haven't heard it used since the first time I defended a space launch, lol.

Maxrap, the reason that I believe all of the other missiles should award pilot kills is because you cannot hit me with them. Good pilots can dodge most of the JSM/MTAA/RGM that are incoming. Feel free to attest to that, if you agree that you dodge your share of other missiles. I'll find an old combat video and paste it to show you that using non all aspects does take skill. Missile evaded.

Again, I don't want to stay out of *range*, I stay out of normal lock on zones, i.e. not in front of my enemy, but still in the f'ball, hehe. Melee, not snipe.

I don't agree, but I respect your opinions on being hit with others' all aspects, as long as you don't use them yourself.

Maybe we've flown together jereth, but there are a few Smokes on the PSN.


Smoke, Ldogg

quote:

Originally posted by maxraptor09:

quote:

Originally posted by Master_Cylinder:
Good players don't whine about what weapons they get killed with, they just learn and adapt. Staying out of their range or just killing them first is the better solution, imo...

MC - We actually agree on this. I had to re-read it to make sure I was correct, though!

I've said it before, on this and other forums and regarding different games many times. I see it in almost every game. Also, I love killing people with the weapons that they whine about.

Another alternative to whining about AAMs is to just "kill them first." If landon (or anyone else) gets killed from behind by an AAM at short range all that says is that they should have switched to an AAM before the enemy did...or staying out of range, etc works too. Perhaps switching to an appropriate weapon at an appropriate distance, time, situation, etc is just too much to ask...

"Again, I don't want to stay out of *range*" -me.

thanks for the tip ill try it, also WOLF was the callsign used and i do remember a smoke who was pretty damn good

quote:

Originally posted by jerethdalion:

quote:

Originally posted by landon_326:
You just put it perfectly MC.

You said, "...what *weapons* they get killed with."

If a pilot shoots me down with literally any weapon in the game other than all aspects, then it is the player's kill. The player.

As soon as the all aspects start flying, it becomes the weapon's kill. The missiles should get the exp, not the player.

And staying out of range is not an acceptable solution. The 'fuzzball' I believe its called; I have the most fun right in the middle of it all, friends and enemies encompassing you. I shouldn't have to lose that, or my 7 streak, because of these missiles.

Anyone else, if you don't want to read any more about whether or not these missiles should be around, well then why are you?

I've never seen lag over the PSN, mostly from midnight to 3 or so eastern. If my MTAAs always actually fired though, that'd been swell.


Smoke

furrball.. not fuzz

and yea allaspects are too manoverable sure 13% damage isnt much but when you have 3 players launching em at you 2 per shot it adds up....fast

and smoke.. you sound familier.....i may have played you back in the day...

still have to get my platinum need sitting ducks still

I usually hate it when I've got 8 missiles coming at me from all sides. Very hard to avoid them, especially the AAs once I'm out of flares.

I'll play nice without AAs until I find someone shooting me down with them at which point I'll switch to AAs the next time they fire an AA at me in a turning dogfight.

quote:

Originally posted by Master_Cylinder:
I've said it before, on this and other forums and regarding different games many times. I see it in almost every game. Also, I love killing people with the weapons that they whine about.

Another alternative to whining about AAMs is to just "kill them first." If landon (or anyone else) gets killed from behind by an AAM at short range all that says is that they should have switched to an AAM before the enemy did...or staying out of range, etc works too. Perhaps switching to an appropriate weapon at an appropriate distance, time, situation, etc is just too much to ask...

Indeed. People took getting shot down by an all-aspect very seriously..

I only played in realistic mode, so I never had to deal with someone who spammed the all-aspects. 2 per life is all I had to face.

There were plenty of methods available to counter any missile system out there.

quote:

Originally posted by landon_326:
Maxrap, the reason that I believe all of the other missiles should award pilot kills is because you cannot hit me with them. Good pilots can dodge most of the JSM/MTAA/RGM that are incoming. Feel free to attest to that, if you agree that you dodge your share of other missiles. I'll find an old combat video and paste it to show you that using non all aspects does take skill. Missile evaded.

Again, I don't want to stay out of *range*, I stay out of normal lock on zones, i.e. not in front of my enemy, but still in the f'ball, hehe. Melee, not snipe.

Smoke, Ldogg

All of the missiles can be dodged with the proper flight tactics and/or countermeasures. Yes, even the all aspects. It's all about your relevant position (among other factors) to the incoming missile.

I don't need to see your video of the all aspect missile kills because it will not change my mind on the subject. Everyone here knows what those missiles did. Additionally, the servers were compromised by latency issues for some of us. I could not play in a room if the host was from Europe without having problems. 8 player rooms? Forget about it. This is the chief reason I don't self-aggrandize over my online victories. Who knows what was happening on their end? All I could do was laugh at the host of a room who thinks he's an ace.

Personally? I took the all-aspects on as a challenge. Yeah, sometimes they result in a cheap kill, but when I defeat them, it's all the better.

Plus, it sounds like your entire stance on the all-aspects is based on the fact you didn't want to change your strategy. You want to knife fight, and the all-aspects provide a challenge you do not want to face.

I understand that, for I did not like playing in room where it took more then 1-2 missiles to get kills, hence my favoring of the rooms set on realistic. I always play COD on Hardcore, for another reference. It's all comes back to our own individual preferences.

quote:

Originally posted by maxraptor09:
Indeed. People took getting shot down by an all-aspect very seriously..

Yeah it hurts their score and fragile ego so they have to blame the external (AAM in this case) so they don't hove to reflect inward. It's easier for some of them to blame the AAM rather than their own faults, like poor weapons management.

Skill is a concept revolving around having the ability to accomplish what others' cannot. A pilot with Down Syndrome can hit nearly any nemesis with all aspects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxhnjHa86bQ
About 3 minutes of TDM, knifefighting in the midde of it all, recorded 9/29/09.
20+/- JSM/MTAA evaded.
8 AAM hits.
The point isn't to show what AAM can do, but rather what JSM/MTAA cannot.

MaxRap: The way that you feel, "your missiles were doing anywhere from 50-100% of your work." Since I can slide past the other missiles, I disagree. 10-20% maybe for JSM/MTAA/RGM, against good pilots.

The rest of your statement, "Perhaps this reason alone is why I like WW2 gunfights." I feel the same way about All Aspects as you do about all missiles that lock on. AAM make me look to other opportunities fly, but other missiles don't. To shoot you down with guns shows skill, right? To shoot me down with any non All Aspect shows skill, more than pilots Death, Ganga, and GUY have, lol.

MC: From the other side, I've seen it in many games too; players who cannot understand that if a move/attack/weapon is set to hit nearly every time, by using them we see that you don't have enough skill not to. It doesn't surprise me that you can't see why pilots who can dodge other missiles laugh at those of you who use AAM. It is true that the All Aspect Missile is a better pilot than I am, but the player using them, well see Down Syndrome above.

Jereth: I cannot say that I remember flying with a WOLF, but when Smoke is in the air, the scoreboard isn't the only thing lit up.

Dement: I do like having 8 missiles coming at me from all sides, as long as they aren't nearly auto-hit. Yes, the knife fight.

If your Dad buys you a Viper, does it take skill to beat a Hummer in a race? How about if you both have Vipers, and one of you wins every time? One of these situations demands respect.

It seems to be proportionate: having a dislike for AAM, and having the skill to dodge everything else.


Smoke, Ldogg

I also hate playing against others using OFF. I prefer playing in the cockpit more like a sim. When I see someone doing the 180 degree flip on me, I change tactics and start switching to RP to more rapidly blow them out of the air than using guns.

Smoke:

To get sittings ducks is it best to play in realistic mode. I've tried several times using the trick you mentioned of getting shot down and set up to launch the MTAAs and then EMP only to find I've shot down the target just before the EMP takes effect or they don't go down when hit during the EMP.

I got sitting ducks on hardcore, MTAAs still do a one hit kill. I fired them as soon as I was in range, then right before they were ready again, I activated the EMP strike. Then fired again.

You have to get two kills while the EMP strike is active, but they do not have to be from the same missile group. You can get two, maybe three, groups of 4 MTAAs out while the EMP strike is active.


Smoke, Ldogg

Tips on drone destroyer anyone...?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: landon_326,

quote:

Originally posted by landon_326:
It doesn't surprise me that you can't see why pilots who can dodge other missiles laugh at those of you who use AAM.

I understand that the whiners can't handle being killed with (insert legitimate weapon here) because they're deluded enough to think they're better than they obviously are (or they think they're so special they get to decide which weapons are "cheap" etc for everyone else) but I hope you're also not surprised that most of the players are laughing at the whiners as we kill them, over and over, with whatever weapon they just whined about.

Hope that helps....but it wont.

quote:

Originally posted by landon_326:
Skill is a concept revolving around having the ability to accomplish what others' cannot. A pilot with Down Syndrome can hit nearly any nemesis with all aspects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxhnjHa86bQ
About 3 minutes of TDM, knifefighting in the midde of it all, recorded 9/29/09.
20+/- JSM/MTAA evaded.
8 AAM hits.
The point isn't to show what AAM can do, but rather what JSM/MTAA cannot.

MaxRap: The way that you feel, "your missiles were doing anywhere from 50-100% of your work." Since I can slide past the other missiles, I disagree. 10-20% maybe for JSM/MTAA/RGM, against good pilots.

The rest of your statement, "Perhaps this reason alone is why I like WW2 gunfights." I feel the same way about All Aspects as you do about all missiles that lock on. AAM make me look to other opportunities fly, but other missiles don't. To shoot you down with guns shows skill, right? To shoot me down with any non All Aspect shows skill, more than pilots Death, Ganga, and GUY have, lol.

It seems to be proportionate: having a dislike for AAM, and having the skill to dodge everything else.


Smoke, Ldogg

Yes, thanks for the definition of "skill". You should have posted one of "humble". That one might actually help you, since it's obvious it doesn't apply to you..

I see you posted a video. It was a waste of your time, for I have not disputed the effectiveness of the all aspect missiles at all. But while we are on the topic of your video, I will highlight the fact that you were the host of the match (at the beginning, you can see all the other players join the match after you). My point? When the connection is strong showing how well you perform is irrelevant. If you host all the time, it's no wonder you did not have to face latency issues.

Nice quit BTW. I fast forwarded the vid till then end, and I was actually expecting you to make a comeback, or at least, a valiant effort. You closed the room on everyone. Well, maybe you didn't waste your time, I watched it.

You also fail to understand the context of what I stated. My 50-100% of your work is nothing more then my acknowledgement of what should be a well known fact. Your planes radar locks on the enemy airplane, and you fire. With the exception of the RGM, you do absolutely nothing once the missile is fired. In your case, you fly another circle. All of the missiles are fire and forget. The ability of a player to avoid missiles has nothing to do with the fact that once a player fires off missiles (AA, MTAA, JSM), the missile are on their own. As I stated before, dodging missiles only requires base knowledge of flight tactics and decent stick control..

Gunfighting is all about skill. Your flying vs. my flying. No missiles at 10,000 feet away, nothing. That is why I am surprised at your stance. You claim such skill, yet avoid the dogfight down to it's purest form.

Wow.

Quoting YOU -"having a dislike for AAM, and having the skill to dodge everything else."

That's such a hardliner stance, and an ignorant one at that. Just because someone doesn't share your same view does it mean someone does not have a skillset for this game. Why even think that way?

EDIT - My tip for the drone destroyer? This was the first online trophy I got. I played in a room with 8 people, and waited until the drones were deployed. I only targeted them. I was fortunate enough to hit all of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Master_Cylinder:
Yeah it hurts their score and fragile ego so they have to blame the external (AAM in this case) so they don't hove to reflect inward. It's easier for some of them to blame the AAM rather than their own faults, like poor weapons management.

Poor weapons management? I can agree with that, but I look at it more as poor tactics.

This is the problem when a game hasn't balanced the line of arcade and sim correctly. Plus, all that was needed was the devs to have more options in the interface for the players to choose from, IE - IL-2 Birds of Prey.