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I put this challenge out to anyone in here who says this was a bad decision:
What, exactly, do you seeing the best use for the F-22? Who will it fight? The rules are: You can't say China (hell they OWN half our debt, attacking them would be suicide - not to mention on one wants to). You can't say Russia (because nobody anywhere wants that war and there's no reason for it). Well? Now give me a good justification for keeping the F-22 in production. |
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Actually winning a war against China could alleviate half our debt.
Although I'm not saying I want one, I'm just saying it would. It's funny how people view major wars as impossible. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. -*The Poster Formally Known As JSF-89, Total Posts:678*- |
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How, might I ask, do you think taking on the guys who lend us so much of "our" money will give us more money? That's not quite how the economy works. _______________________________ http://www.myspace.com/nonesonon http://www.youtube.com/adnihilis - HAWX videos. PSN: Adnihilis-II HAWX Callsign: Black |
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The reason the nation is in the debt we're in right now is exactly the kind of things you propose. Throwing more and more money away in a vain attempt to "cure" social ills, both domestically and abroad (foreign aid). Government is not the solution for most social problems, both real and imagined. Often times, it's part of the problem. Spending money on military systems, like the F-22, on the other hand, IS part of the function of the Federal Government. In other words, providing for "the common defense" of the territorial United States and it's overseas interests. Generals may be guilty of fighting the previous wars, but politicians and bean counters are guilty of being short sighted of future threats. We may spend big bucks on the Armed Forces, but most of that spending isn't going toward developing future systems to maintain technological superiority/capability to handle future scenarios effectively. Or if funds are diverted to such programs, they usually end up being cut back to nil, or canceled altogether down the line when the political tide turns. Thus, money is wasted. We may be on top of things now, but our capabilities are slowly becoming outdated. Much of the current "streamlining" of defense expenditures threaten to weaken our ability for power projection in the future. I'd rather have a lean, mean technologically superior military than a grossly inefficient national health care system or government bail outs of failing corporations. Socialism looks nice on paper. But history has shown that it does more harm than good. The Federal Government needs to stick with what the Constitution empowers it to do (such as defense, for one thing). "Promote the general welfare" doesn't mean playing "Big Mommy" for 300 million people. |
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So tell me. If government is to have no say in the social ills (I suppose there IS a pun in there) of our people, who rectifies the problems? Who regulates what a person or organization can and cannot do? Who sets up the laws that dictate such things? Who makes sure people get a fair shot at affording health insurance? An education? Justice in putting away the people who murdered your son or raped your wife? As it is, in many, many cases, private industries are doing a terrible job. Private corporations get rich the more you're suckered into what you don't need while often times failing to provide you with what you do. Don't complain next time if any company wants to rip you off. That's capitalism at its finest, baby, the American way, free from regulation by things like, oh, I don't know, the very laws we so pride ourselves on having, except when they either don't apply or allow too much freedom.
The problem with people, people everywhere, is that they don't know how to self-regulate. They don't know how to consider how their lives impact those of others, that no one is isolated like that. Unfortunately, yeah, I do think government should step in and take care of its own people. Feed us. Educate us. Keep us safe from crime. Take care of our sick. Oh, wait. "Give me your tired, your poor..." ceased being an American symbol? The thing is, government has been vilified when it used to be all about a nation for the people BY the people. I still hold this nation to that standard, however naive it might seem, and the reason is that I'm a man of principle. I cannot stand looking at things as being two separate things and the same thing at the same time. "Patriotism is good! Screw you, [fellow American citizen], but I want all my money and refuse to share with YOU." Things like that. The military is just a single facet, not the entirety of government. It takes care of one, not THE ONLY one, aspect of our national well-being. And frankly, we have greater risks from within that have absolutely nothing, whatsoever, to do with "OMG ragheads and commies!" crap. Jesus, everyone's just a human being trying to live out a life. We all want food, shelter, safety, companionship, etc. Whether it's a Middle Eastern person, an American, man, woman or child, it's always the same. And our problems are seldom found far. What affects us the most is always at home. Sorry if this comes across as a bit stream of consciousness-ish. I'm occasionally writing this in between talking to my wife. I don't really care enough to edit this to be more concise and such. _______________________________ http://www.myspace.com/nonesonon http://www.youtube.com/adnihilis - HAWX videos. PSN: Adnihilis-II HAWX Callsign: Black |
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boy... you have NO IDEA how WRONG you are there... the reason the country is in such deep **** is because of the capitalist pigs who go overboard lending money to people who can't pay them back, then ONE smart investor realizes where that leads to and start selling, then EVERYONE sees it and starts selling everything... which sharply raises the supply which drops the price down drastically... now the government wants to step in to STOP that so they won't get something like 50% unemployment rate and companies all going for bankrupcy... Lehman bros. bankrupcy was bad enough... you want 100 others? instead of wasting billions on a "futuristic air superiority fighter" that is not needed (article page 2 paragraph 1: "If we've been able to ward off air threats so definitively with our current level of technology, why do we need even 187 F-22s, much less 240? And, by the way, are the 1,000 or more F-35s we plan to buy really necessary, either?"), they give out money to "cure" those problems... IF the government did NOT step in, you would have NO IDEA in how much of a deep **** you would be in right now unless you want martial law and a coup d'etat starting in USA... you DO NOT want more spending in military than already is  |
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It is true, most of that money could be used somewhere else. Sadly, at the same time, the government is financing GM with 60 billions too. That's like giving 187 F-22 to GM. A company that made a lot of profit (billions) since its creation. Of course, GM offers more benefits to the country. Yet, I somewhat take it as helping those who screwed us up...
To me, it is just sad to see such a piece of technology to be stop there, but it is totally understandable. -- H.A.W.X. - Plane Finder (Ubisoft's mirror) Find a plane with the features and weapon packs you want. |
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I look at it this way.
If they took half the money that was going to be spent on the remaining F-22's. Placed it towards helping to protect and defend our troops on the ground, it would be money worth spending. They are our brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers & loved ones. Doesn't matter if you support the war or not, these people need help, protection, and medical programs for putting their butt on the line day to day. The price of one plane could help a few hundred soldiers easily. |
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Sorry, what? Have you not seen what the CURRENT war has done to our economy and money/resource supply? And that's against a relatively small insurgency operation. Compare that to a war against China. Get your philosophical crap and store it until you can be trusted with intelligent thoughts. |
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It has cup holders. |
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I'll bite
The F-22 is the replacement for the F-15, the Eagle is showing her age as indicated by 90% of the force being grounded a little over a year ago due to structural problems. As for who will it fight? No one can answer that, war is unpredictable In 1919 everyone said that there would be no more 'big wars', and thanks to Versailles there's no way what so ever that Germany would every cause any trouble in the future In 1929 safe bet was that the US and Great Britain would come to blows by the end of the next decade In 1939 Germany invades Poland and starts WWII So you can't say the you'll be fighting enemy X for the next 20 years, or that you expect to fight enemy Y with in a certain time frame, because you'll just get bitten in the *** by the enemy you least expect With that in mind we have to make sure that we have better stuff than everyone else so that we can cope with a broader range of scenarios.
Who said anything about attacking? At this point an American-Chinese war is unlikely, but what about 10 or 20 years from now? You can't say "oh we owe'em money so, NO WAR FOR YOU!"
True, but Russia is keen on reclaiming superpower status and on reclaiming its lost territories over the course of the long-term, and that will bring it into conflict with US interests with in the next 50 years or so the present economic environment will slow things down for now, it won't stop them though
Like I said earlier, we need to replace the F-15's before they fall out of the sky from wing spar fatigue Oh and one more thing if we scrap the F-22 it'll take another 30 years and tens of billions to get another aircraft like it 20 years from now when we have no choice in the matter and must replace our fighter force |
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I think NASA should get all that money now
 . Really there isn't any other country economically capable off funding major space enterprises. Everyone can have planes, SAM's, and guns, but not space. The russians can't support anything more than they have now, the chinese are a decade or so behind and the koreans can't even launch an ICBM successfully. The Americans could obtain "space superiority", except for all the treaties there isn't anything that would limit research and production.  |
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What he said. Plus, all those planes that were built for the cold war came into good use during Desert Storm. F-117, F-16, F-15, F-18, even A-10s which seemed to always be up on the chopping block at one point or another. And probably a bunch of others I'm not even naming. Who saw that coming? During Vietnam we built planes without guns(just missles) and got owned by smaller nimbler migs on the early part of it because of similar "who needs it" thinking. Plus, what happens when the Transformers or Aliens come? We gotta have at least something? |
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That's thing though, Liberals will go to their graves believing that a "global village" is right around the corner, all's we have to do is sell off our military and show everyone we love them, i mean besides, it's not like a big war is ever gonna happen again anyways, right?
The reality of it? Were human. We will ALWAYS fight. There will ALWAYS be war, and if you dont defend yourself, then you dont suvive. But I guess I'd rather have some nifty new ATV trails instead, sure, yeah. -*The Poster Formally Known As JSF-89, Total Posts:678*- |
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You realize that WW2 saved our economy dont you? If it wasnt for the Great War, we might have never recovered.. FDR's plans were garbage. The war saved us. -*The Poster Formally Known As JSF-89, Total Posts:678*- |
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