This sounds like an interesting idea from the US Navy.

So, if a monkey forces a stick into an ant hole, the world is like "dang, that animal is using a tool. It is so smart."

Meanwhile, we're almost using freaken sea water to power our fast flying machines, which is quite an amazing idea.

I am not convinced that human beings came from here originally.


Smoke, Ldogg

quote:

Originally posted by landon_326:
So, if a monkey forces a stick into an ant hole, the world is like "dang, that animal is using a tool. It is so smart."

Meanwhile, we're almost using freaken sea water to power our fast flying machines, which is quite an amazing idea.

I am not convinced that human beings came from here originally.


Smoke, Ldogg

Well, there's lots of african and muslim legends that states monkeys are de-evolutioned humans, heh...

I've also heard of some resercarh where guys were trying to made car fuel out of sunflower and olive oil.

Some people have made cars that runs from recycled cooking oil. (French potatoes) While that's original and interesting, that's not a decent alternative. Besides, cars and jets aren't really comparable.

Max, I deleted your extra posts. The forums seem to be running slow today and I keep double posting thinking it's not working too. Weird.

Anyway:
"Although the gas forms only a small proportion of air – around 0.04 per cent – ocean water contains about 140 times that concentration, he says."

I had no idea.

That's weird, it gave me an error like three times, but I guess it "worked". Sorry for the triple or quadruple posts.

Edit : For some reason, I can't check the "Signature" button too. Ubisoft is probably running an update, I just clicked to check my profile and the layout has changed, that's for sure.

Yeah I was getting error readings too. I noticed the forums are running slow today and I asked around about it. I'll let you guys know when I get a reply.

this sounds like a great supplemental energy supply for aircraft carriers.

trying to apply it to a really large scale worries me though - what are they doing with the salt left over? pumping it back into the sea? that'll just lower the freezing point. might cause environmental problems from melting/refreezing at the poles...or the various global streams of air.

most current fuel 'solutions' have way too many critical sideaffects..they're all stopgap measures created by a desperate humanity trying to save itself posthumously.

About the salt, that's an interesting point. I'm not sure it would really change something. We would need more numbers to check that out, like how many kg of seawater are used to fill a jet. (Salt ratio is about 3.5%) We would know the actual salt generated and sent back in the sea. (Unless they keep it to sell it on shore. )

quote:

Originally posted by ElysianGuardian:
this sounds like a great supplemental energy supply for aircraft carriers.

trying to apply it to a really large scale worries me though - what are they doing with the salt left over? pumping it back into the sea? that'll just lower the freezing point. might cause environmental problems from melting/refreezing at the poles...or the various global streams of air.

most current fuel 'solutions' have way too many critical sideaffects..they're all stopgap measures created by a desperate humanity trying to save itself posthumously.

Ok a couple things...
1st they wouldn't be using it for "supplemental energy supply" for the carrier, it's for the jets (helos and the props guys as well).
2nd I'm calling shenanigans on your claim for environmental problems that you stated, taking out the relative volumes of CO2 in comparison to the amount of CO2 present in the ocean (not to mention the fact that CO2 get naturally reintroduced back in to the ocean, and some companies deposit "carbon credits" in the ocean.)
3nd If wanted an point for you argument it should be that the Navy uses seawater to produce the fresh water on the ships, and returns "brine" back to the ocean (highly salinated water). However then you should also point your finger at icebergs because they have a lower salt content then the seawater around them, so they increase the concentration of salt in sea water (When they freeze the salt goes into the surrounding water).Salt concentrations.
This is a major stategic goal for the Navy, If we could produce our own fuel then, carrier would only be limited by food.

quote:

Originally posted by northtouk:
Ok a couple things...
1st they wouldn't be using it for "supplemental energy supply" for the carrier, it's for the jets (helos and the props guys as well).
2nd I'm calling shenanigans on your claim for environmental problems that you stated, taking out the relative volumes of CO2 in comparison to the amount of CO2 present in the ocean (not to mention the fact that CO2 get reintroduced back in to the ocean via photosynthesis in plankton) makes you claim a not starter.
3nd If wanted an point for you argument it should be that the Navy uses seawater to produce the fresh water on the ships, and returns "brine" back to the ocean (highly salinated water). However then you should also point your finger at icebergs because they have a lower salt content then the seawater around them, so they increase the concentration of salt in sea water (When they freeze the salt goes into the surrounding water).Salt concentrations. Google is your friend.
This is a major stategic goal for the Navy, If we could produce our own fuel then, carrier would only be limited by food.

ok a couple things:
you're arguing for no reason. i wasnt talking about using it to supplement the carrier's power supply. US carriers are nuclear, france has 1 nuclear, russia's uses nuclear and diesel, and no one else could afford the process. i was referring to the purpose of a carrier - to CARRY AIRCRAFT. aircraft need fuel.
second:
you are a former pilot, not a microbiologist or anything of the sort. know-it-alls like you are what i usually deal with every day...F15E pilots who play with their stick too much. can you predict the infinitesimally small fluxuations throughout the entire biosphere? hardly. all i was saying is that "i'm concerned." because i WILL admit that i cant factor in every environmental variable(wow, i'm repeating myself...but obviously you didnt read anything the first time through).

did you read my post, or simply drop the flamebait cuz you knew i'd bite?

jeez i hate trolls.

quote:

Originally posted by northtouk:
This is a major strategic goal for the Navy, If we could produce our own fuel then, carrier would only be limited by food.

Add to that, if carriers could produce the jet's fuel, they wouldn't need to bring as much fuel with them. They could transfer the weight of that fuel to food supplies or anything else.

On a side note, you can't really blame the nature for what it is. In the case of "freezing seawater loses its salt", that's part of "nature". Yet, we still have to verify what happens when humans start to do it. It could be exactly the same as CO2 emitted by humans. The nature itself emit CO2 in multiple ways, heck volcanoes emits tons of C02, yet our emissions were big enough to impact the nature around us. Would it be the same, if we were to "abuse" this new technique? Would the seawater considerably get more salty? Only numbers would tell us.

Edit: Yay! My 500th post!

quote:

Originally posted by oOMadMaxOo:

quote:

Originally posted by northtouk:
This is a major strategic goal for the Navy, If we could produce our own fuel then, carrier would only be limited by food.

Add to that, if carriers could produce the jet's fuel, they wouldn't need to bring as much fuel with them. They could transfer the weight of that fuel to food supplies or anything else.

On a side note, you can't really blame the nature for what it is. In the case of "freezing seawater loses its salt", that's part of "nature". Yet, we still have to verify what happens when humans start to do it. It could be exactly the same as CO2 emitted by humans. The nature itself emit CO2 in multiple ways, heck volcanoes emits tons of C02, yet our emissions were big enough to impact the nature around us. Would it be the same, if we were to "abuse" this new technique? Would the seawater considerably get more salty? Only numbers would tell us.

that was kinda my point. naval forces employing this technology would have a great endurance advantage - but i can also envision some dolt trying to supply every car in the world with synthesized fossil fuels. thats why i said large scale...i dont have the available information to draw conclusions on what would happen to the biosphere in that eventuality.
i guess i shouldnt expect everyone to actually read something they're trying to discredit. at least you read it.

quote:

Originally posted by ElysianGuardian:
..
ok a couple things:
you're arguing for no reason. i wasnt talking about using it to supplement the carrier's power supply. US carriers are nuclear, france has 1 nuclear, russia's uses nuclear and diesel, and no one else could afford the process. i was referring to the purpose of a carrier - to CARRY AIRCRAFT. aircraft need fuel.
second:
...F15E pilots who play with their stick too much. can you predict the infinitesimally small fluxuations throughout the entire biosphere? hardly. all i was saying is that "i'm concerned." because i WILL admit that i cant factor in every environmental variable(wow, i'm repeating myself...but obviously you didnt read anything the first time through).

did you read my post, or simply drop the flamebait cuz you knew i'd bite?

jeez i hate trolls.

I reedited my original post because I believe I came off too harsh. I am not retired, I am a current Naval Aviator. My major is Agricultural Biotechnology (you wouldn't have known that so I don't blame you in that point) so I am that kind of sort. Multiple credit hours in Organic Chemistry and Biochemistry, and Physics. Although I haven't studied Ocean biosystems directly I can still make assumptions. The problem in question here is the desalination of water and its effect, the ocean varies in sality within itself 3.2 to 3.8% and with the Earth containing 1.4 billion cubic kilometers of water .1% is a tremoundous amount.http://eesc.columbia.edu/cours...ectures/o_strat.html
The world is going to desalinated water as a way to cover it's population needs includingFrance, would consume more than the US Navy ever could.
While true if water is not replenished at any point and the salt is retained that will lower the freezing point, however we still consume salt, IMO to many moving parts for it to have any "immediate" effect(using it in terms or the Earth's time line not ours.) CO2 emissions are significantly more of problem to back up your point more so then higher salt-concentrated oceans. If you have a better solution for providing the world with water or if you have an educated response to this rather than banter I would like to hear it, and please include what you "do all day" Otherwise...

Talking of unexpected behaviors...