quote:

Originally posted by societysfault:
the hawx team hopefully recognizes that if they make a good realistic flight game people will play it for years to come. people are still playing over-g believe it or not.
ace combat, is a ghost town and for good reason. its a mindless boring game that feels like a chore to play. the planes are boring to fly, the endless amount of weapons are boring to shoot.
yeah it is cool on over-g when you run out of weapons, and your wingman is scrambling to get a bogey off your back so you can exit the combat area. thats team work.
a couple guys with unlimited missiles all pushing "a" over and over and over spamming one target is lame.
i use to work in a digital special effects house that worked on movies, but was starting a game division. i tried to convince them their first game should be a good flight game. it seems the suits that crunch the numbers feel that it takes too much work to create a good flight game for console because there are two types of flight game fans. the kind that want absolute realism, and the kind that want unlimited missiles, and unrealistic aircraft performance. i just hope hawx gets it right. you absolutley can not have a good flight game without realism, and good physics and ya da ya da ya. i guess time will tell what they have in store for this game. being the flight nut that i am i hope its realistic.
the thing is the hardcore realism fans, will play the game for years, and give them a solid fanbase, as where the arcade style fans will ultimately lose interest when the next big game comes out, and hawx will be left behind just like ac6. it sucks, i wish they would release more info on this title. its going to drive me nuts for the next 6 months wondering if they are doing it right or not.

Well somebody's got a long opinion!
Peace dude.

As I said my opinion. No need to go einstein on it, k?

Yeah you have a wingman, but can it think on it's own? I don't think so. You have to press buttons just to tell him to protect me protect me. Whereas when you have unlimited missiles you can shoot down as many opponents as you like! And dude! COME ON I"M NOT ASKING FOR ARCADE GAMEPLAY! I CAN LIVE WITH SIM GAMEPLAY! I JUST WANT LOTS OF MISSILES!

Why can't we have "absolute realism" and lots of missiles? About that realism thing I mean gameplay and maneuvering realism.

Where's the fun in running out of weapons?

OH SHOOT I"M RUNNING OUT OF MISSILES! MY WINGMAN'S DOWN! I"M FRIKED!!! OH MY GOSH I"M FRIKED!! I"M WAY AWAY FROM THE BASE AND CAN"T REARM!!! THE MANY MIGS WOULD SHOOT ME DOWN!!!! MY MG'S EXHAUSTED!!! I'M SOOO DEAD!!!

Next thing you know the screen says Game Over.

Unless the wingman flies like superman that is. With that dialouge yes, I feel the tension as you say.

I am one of the few guilty of still playing over-g, If my console wasn't in Texas right now Over-g as fun as it was is not a true simulation. In my opinion, not enough time was spent in research on certain planes and their systems. For example, an F-22A can execute a Cobra, J-turn and all advanced combat maneuvers while traveling at low to normal speeds. I was very disappointed when I picked up Over-G that this was not the case. Apart from that, The systems need to be accurized in terms of engine thrust, lift, radar emissions, internal systems. For a hard core Falcon 4.0 player like me, I like the ability to control every aspect of my plane instead of pointed my guns at an enemy and hitting a target button. I want elevation and radar azimuth. I want to be able to slew my missiles. I want the ability to lock my AGM-65D onto a random building and expect it to hit. I want to be able to land on roads. I want to be able to put my Raptor into hover and use my thrust vectoring to control my direction like in those awsome videos. I want to be able to put my F-35B into hover mode and watch as the enemy mig trying to gun me down flys right by me in all my super airbrake fury and recieves a missile or two up his tail.

no 25 missiles unless you are flying a B-52H of course and they are AGM-154C's I want realistic loadouts with realistic weight limits.
If I shoot my missile and the proximity sensor goes off 10 meters to the left of the plane, I want his left wing to tear off Realism keeps people interested. the more realism, the more dedicated fanbase. There will always be another AC6, but wouldn't it be cool if HAwx was so realisitic that some of us will still be playing it in our 70's. Or used as an Air Force training sim? think about it Ubisoft, land a government contract and your profits will go through the roof overnight.

and in response to DGTP, I love a limited amount of missiles. When I run out, I can have some fun with my guns

plus, you have to think about it. A normal plane can carry in excess of 6 weapons. When in normal combat are you ever going to see more than 10 planes, and even that is very rare. Plus, you have your own element to keep you company. A good flight sim is all about tactics and strategies. If an AWACS is feeding the enemy information, pick up the AWACS' radar emissions and send a high altitude interceptor to go and shoot it down! Then, you have support and they don't. Like I said, when flying, you have to consider your wingmen an extension of yourself. learn to work as one entity, thats what you have been training for over 6 months for right? or are you one of those people who skipped flight school?

You're really freaking me out with all your knowledge!

quote:

Originally posted by DGTP430:
You're really freaking me out with all your knowledge!

DGTP, I just don't like lots of missiles flying around all the time thats all, in falcon 4.0 I might get shot at and not even see the missile because it is not targeting me actively the missile is in fact being following the radar illumination sent out by the controlling aircraft.Proves my point even more that if you are a skilled pilot, you shouldn't need that many missiles.

Probably a hangover from playing Heatseeker. hehe

im talking about online play. and fyi this game is supposed to have online co-op for up to four players, so the chances that your wing man will be a human player are really high.
over-g is by far the closest thing to a sim to ever grace the console, as i already stated, it wasnt perfect, but no game like over-g has EVER been on a CONSOLE. you can argue that all you want.

you cant have realism and unlimited missiles because its retarded. for one the weight of your weapons payload effects the weight of the plane, thereby effecting that planes over-all performance during that sortie. once your payload has been fired, your plane is lighter and more maneuverable. if your talking absolute realism, then your talking "details" and those details are what makes the difference. why arent you playing ace combat if you love that style of gameplay so much. quit wanting games to be made so easy. if its easy you want you could buy a wii or something.

i dont know how old you are or how long you have been playing video games, but you aint no pilot, virtual or otherwise. "whats fun about running out of missiles" are you serious? or just mentally challenged. you sound like the kind of person that brings home a brand new game and starts entering cheat codes so that you can just play through with ease.

[URL=[/URL]]click to see real gamers


[URL=click here to see real gamers

chill man, this is a friendly forum, no flaming here or you will be dealt with by moderators, read the rules. You can argue all you want, but please keep it friendly. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!

Now the real question is, where did you find an f-16 for lo-mac????

hey im tryin to be cool with the guy, but he keeps making these condescending statements about how my opinion is too long, and i didnt address him by his name and he hates that and what not. i mean serious if your names gy98oxzk2 im not gonna make a point to address you by your name. pick a better name next time.
not to mention he wants hawx to be ace combat 7, and i simply cant allow that. the guy is not a flight sim fan of any sort. if anything he is the one overstating that he wants to be able to over-g an aircraft at mach 2 with no consequences while shooting unlimited missiles.(which is just ridiculous, and would ruin the game).


as far as the thunderbird skins you need to mod em, but im sure they are available for download by now.

Ubi doesn't do sims on consoles. If that's all you'll accept, then prepare for disappointment--but you get to save some money. I doubt the PC version will be different from the console version.
Fine with me, I've got my PC and X52 for sims. For the console I'm perfectly happy with OGF and AC6 type games---as long as it doesn't go so far as Blazing Angels did.

You guys have different opinions, that's the big problem? Please recognize that some people want it to be more of an arcade flyer and some (most) of us want it to be more simulation. Ace combat is very popular, that's why there have been 6 of them, and just because someone wants a new ace combat-like game does not make them an idiot, so please don't get ruffled by someone who has different ideas for what they want to see in a game.

Anyway, I think that it would work well for missiles to scale to the difficulty. Take R6V2 for example. On casual you have 10 grenades, on realistic you have 2. I would be fine with easy having 30 missiles, and hard having 10 (these are just arbitrary numbers) with online play being the same or fewer than the harder difficulty.

I definitely agree that I prefer dogfighting with my guns because sometimes using missiles is just to easy! Not to mention it's more exciting.

I seem to remember a last-generation console game that had planes with fairly realistic loadouts. I can't remember the title, and the gameplay sort of strayed from realistic (I recall a sci-fi-ish fortress with mechs and a core that had to be taken out), but it made you use realistic ammo counts. For example, one of the planes in a sortie basically came with only 8 missiles. I think you could pick your individual hardpoint weapon loads too, but not sure. And I might be misremembering the specifics, but I'm sure it kept with realistic loadouts.

if it was xbox, it was called something like air force delta storm or something like that. it was extra crappy though. that, heroes of the pacific, and crimson skies were the only flight games for the original xbox. of course when they ported operation flashpoint ( how could i forget operation flashpoint!!) over to xbox, that was the only place to get any decent flying done on xbox. me and four other guys used to run some pretty awesome formations in the a-10s and bomb the sh1! out of people. thats probably what will happen again for 360. operation flashpoint 2 will come out and it will encompass every aspect of war, from air to sea to ground, and it will do it right. total simulation style. theres supposed to be a heroes over europe game coming out. heroes of the pacific wasnt that bad, it was actually fairly fun, but it still needs a massive overhaul. the ceiling was only like 3,000 feet and it had a host of other problems, but i enjoyed dog fighting in my mustang for a while.

EDIT: Found it: Lethal Skies 2. Its a little different than I remember, but it seems to stand properly. Have a loadout screen for the MiG-29. Its not a real sim, it has a definitive arcade slant, but it does feature the reduced loads

Image here:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/image/914990.html?gs=31

I am fine with the console fans having their game, but I now that you mention it, I don't really care what happens with HAWX. With fighterops coming out in Q4 2008, I am sure I will have super realistic fun as is par with the Falcon 4.0 team. Also, the DCS is coming out in early 2009. that will provide me with a good helicopter sim as well...

Although, when I need time off of my computer, the console is usually a good place to spend it, and if HAWX is a sim, it would be a better place to spend my time.