Hey Ironhand

Im a big fan of your video tutorials and since the tutorials on Lock-on are really boring ( no voice what-so-ever in some of them) maybe you could make a video tutorial about the Su-27 / 33 Radar. The Azimuth / angles and all that stuff.

I saw how important it is to know and use your Radar as best as possible on Multiplayer, the Firing and the maneuvering isnt that hard compared to how good u have to be with ur radar and understanding how it works / doesnt work so u can sneak on people and make an easy kill...


I mean, i know how to use the radar, i can work my way around the Singleplayer and actually finish the campaigns. However, that's nothing compared to how hard ( and dynamic) the Multiplayer experience is...

Anyhow if you find some free time and u're intrested in my request it would be really cool =]

Hope to see you around!

Just keep flying online. You'll learn.

Since we're on topic...

So if I'm in multiplayer, and I keep my radar off, no one will see me on their radar if they're running any BVR?

What if they have AWACS?

If I turn my radar on for a few seconds, and then off again, can they find me and then lose track, given that I'm not in visual range?

Thank You!

quote:

Originally posted by Romster:
Since we're on topic...

So if I'm in multiplayer, and I keep my radar off, no one will see me on their radar if they're running any BVR?

NOT TRUE. You can still be detected within the normal parameters of the radar. That is-if the radar is aimed at you, and you are not notching, etc- you WILL be seen.

quote:

What if they have AWACS?

Then they have another tool to use. Russian fighters have a silent (non radar) datalink to the AWACS. This allows them to IFF and display [AWACS-detected] aircraft without the use of their own radar. While they have bearing and range info on display, they cannot execute a BVR engagement without the use of their own radar- the AWACS cannot lock a target for them. A fighter COULD (if he dared) use the info in an attempt to get behind a target and engage with IR weapons via the EOS. It's important to note that this datalink does NOT have any ALTITUDE info. (which is really sorry-azz modeling- AS IF it's not on the real planes. gimme a break) However- the AWACS's radio comms do call out rudimentary ALT info using the BRAA format

quote:

If I turn my radar on for a few seconds, and then off again, can they find me and then lose track, given that I'm not in visual range?

Thank You!

Depends. NOT using the radar does not make you invisible. It simply means that you won't be waving that big beacon at everyone. They will have to use other means to locate you.

Thanks Kon!

So if I do have radar on, and enemy is not aiming radar at me, I will be visible on MFD? No matter where I am?

And if I have radar off, the enemy can only see me when the radar is pointed at me?

I didn't mean to ask if AWACS can lock me up for them, but rather if AWACS will report me on MFD, indifferent of where I am.

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Romster:
Thanks Kon!

So if I do have radar on, and enemy is not aiming radar at me, I will be visible on MFD? No matter where I am?

And if I have radar off, the enemy can only see me when the radar is pointed at me?

I didn't mean to ask if AWACS can lock me up for them, but rather if AWACS will report me on MFD, indifferent of where I am.

Thanks!

Imagine you are standing in a completely dark room. If you don't have your flashlight switched on, you cannot identify somebody, but you can see somebody as soon as he switches his light on, no matter if he's pointing it at you or just somewhere in your direction.

As with the light, your radar is visible for a much longer range than you can actually use it. If you use a strong flashlight, you can see like 30m maybe 50m if it is a really strong flashlight. This light, however, can be seen from kilometers away.

If somebody switches on his radar, the emissions are detected by the RWR (RadarWarningReceiver). It will be displayed on the RWR-Screen (for US-aircraft). As most aircraft use different radars, the system can even tell you, if it is a early-warning-radar, a SAM or FlaK or what sort of plane.

So you know the direction and type. But you need the distance and altitude, still, to know where the enemy is, so the only way is to use radar to detect the target.


The same principle is true for Jamming. Most people online use extensively ECM. Taking the example with the dark room, it's like putting a flashlight on top of your head and wondering why friend and enemy is coming for you. Some missiles (like the AMRAAM) even have a special mode to just home on these emissions!


And yes, if you fly against Russian planes and you have an AWACS scanning you, you'll be visible on their MFD.

quote:

Originally posted by Romster:
Thanks Kon!

So if I do have radar on, and enemy is not aiming radar at me, I will be visible on MFD? No matter where I am?

And if I have radar off, the enemy can only see me when the radar is pointed at me?

I didn't mean to ask if AWACS can lock me up for them, but rather if AWACS will report me on MFD, indifferent of where I am.

Thanks!

Just to elaborate further- being visible on MFD without a fighter radar being aimed at you depends on the presence of an AWACS. Assuming no AWACS (or land based EWR) than the fighter must actually find you using his own radar.

Simply energizing YOUR radar does not make you appear on his HDD, BUT it DOES bring you up on his Berioza (russian RWR/TEWS)This is a very important instrument. A glance at my SU33's Berioza will tell me:

1. The nature of the radar (airborne, ground, AWACS)

2. Whether or not the source location is high or low

3. The relative bearing and a "reasonable" idea about range. (varies with power of the source)

4. Rough grouping of ground based threats. The horizontal line of 6 LED's across the bottom of the Berioza groups by the power of the antenna. #2 & #3= trouble. Means that sucka can reach out and touch you.

U.S. plane RWR/ TEWS gives you specific ID of a given source, airborne or ground, relative bearing, and a rudimentary idea of the range. No range scale like the russian, but practiced drivers can tell about how far something is. Better SA overall because all sources are clearly displayed at once, while Russian flyers must interpret a bunch of LED's.

Thanks Ranger and Kon.

You went above and beyond. I just wanted to know how combat differed when AWACS is present or not, and how that related to me having radar on or off.

I know how RWR works and all that. Actually I just drew up a diagram yesterday for someone, focusing on the approximate range indicator on the Russian RWR.

Speaking of range on Russian RWR, has anyone ever seen a table of sorts, that indicated how far away a signal is based on how many LEDs are on?
Someone was looking for one, and even mentioned they have seen it, but could not locate it.

Thanks!

I don't know about a table, but we just used about 15km per LED as a rule of thumb. We did some testing with labels a long time ago- so we could compare the distance to the power shown. SU27 & F15 were close enough to each other IIRC. The MiG is well known to have lower power- that is to say- it's closer than you think.

yeah, I recall seeing such a chart a while ago, I think on the Lockon.Ru Forum.

I did find this on my PC, that I copied from this Forum back in late 2005 according to the file save date. Dunno who made it, but props to whoever they were! It might be of some use to you....



RWS Range Radar Strength indicator

Enemy Aircraft = F-15

1 Bar = 200 Km away
2 Bar = 195 Km away
3 Bar = 180 Km away
4 Bar = 165 Km away
5 Bar = 150 Km away
6 Bar = 135 Km away
7 Bar = 120 Km away
8 Bar = 105 Km away
9 Bar = 90 Km away
10 Bar = 75 Km away
11 Bar = 60 Km away
12 Bar = 50 km away
13 Bar = 40 Km away
14 Bar = 30 Km away
15 Bar = 10 Km away


Enemy aircraft Su-27 (same values for MiG-29)

1 Bar = 130 Km away
2 Bar = 120 Km away
3 Bar = 110 Km away
4 Bar = 95 Km away
5 Bar = 90 Km away
6 Bar = 80 Km away
7 Bar = 70 Km away
8 Bar = 60 Km away
9 Bar = 50 Km away
10 Bar = 40 Km away
11 Bar = 30 Km away
12 Bar = 20 km away
13 Bar = 10 Km away
14 Bar = 5 Km away
15 Bar = in your cockpit with you!!


Test mission with Su-27 flying at 830kmh at 3000km steady. Flight path directly at SAM.


BUK:
3 circles
Detection circle: 100km
Danger Zone circle: 70km
Launch Zone circle: 50km

15: 84km
14: 79km
13: 73km
12: 67km
11: 62km
10: 56km
9: 50km
8: 45km
7: 39km Missile @ Launch
6: 33km
5: 28km Launch HIT
(about 5 to 6 km per dot average)

KUB:
2 circles
Detection circle: 70km
Danger Zone circle: 37km

15: 59km
14: 55km LOCK
13: 52km
12: 48km
11: 43km
10: 39km
9: 36km
8: 32km Launch Missile @ Launch
7:
6:
HIT (about 30 secs flight time)
5:
(about 4 km per dot average)

HAWK:
2 circles
Detection circle: 90km
Danger Zone circle: 60km

15: 76km
14: 70km
13: 66km
12: 61km
11: 56km
10: 50km
9: 45km
8: 40km
7: 35km
LAUNCH Missile @ Launch
6: 30km
5:
4:
HIT (about 25 secs flight time)
3:
(about 5 km per dot average)

quote:

Originally posted by OneillSGT:
Hey Ironhand

...maybe you could make a video tutorial about the Su-27 / 33 Radar. The Azimuth / angles and all that stuff.

I saw how important it is to know and use your Radar as best as possible on Multiplayer, the Firing and the maneuvering isnt that hard compared to how good u have to be with ur radar and understanding how it works / doesnt work so u can sneak on people and make an easy kill...


I mean, i know how to use the radar, i can work my way around the Singleplayer and actually finish the campaigns. However, that's nothing compared to how hard ( and dynamic) the Multiplayer experience is...

Anyhow if you find some free time and u're intrested in my request it would be really cool =]

Sorry it took so long to reply. I've been out of town. That's a good idea for a tutorial. I'll see what I can do. I presently have another tutorial that I'm slowly working on in my free time. Unfortunately, life has been leaving me little free time lately.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Brit_Radar_Dude:

Enemy aircraft Su-27 (same values for MiG-29)

As mentioned by Konkussion the MIG-29 radar is weaker than the SU-27. So 2 bars not lit to the left of your RWR may be approx. 20 KM for a SU-27 but the MIG-29 will be closer!

Also I beileve the F-15 and SU-27 Radar are more similar than your table indicates.

Just some observations. Thanks for sharing your info Brit.

You could be correct Crunch. As I said, this is just a copy of something I cut and pasted from the Forums years ago. So I can make no claims for its absolute accuracy as I did'nt research the data myself.....