Make your approach from over the water..

This is where there's not going to be an exact solution. If you are flying the US aircraft- the Navigation is screwed up. As simply as I can put it-

Know what airport you want, what side to approach on ahead of time, and get over to that area. If you made the mission- than you know about setting the extra waypoint. If you didn't- just do your best to get to the approach area.

You should already be at an appropriate speed & altitude to begin lining up on final. If the ILS does not kick in automatically, Hit the NAV mode selector until the needles appear on the HUD. I think you need to be about 6 miles out before it will come up.

Once you have the ILS, do your thing.

The Russian aircraft have a much better setup- creating a landing point automatically generates a 15km final approach leg, you simply select RTN mode- clearly stated on the HUD, and follow the line on the HDD or the HSI depending on the plane. The ILS comes up when you cross the final approach waypoint. (As long as you don't totally miss it by several km.)

Well I am pretty dumb about this "main heading" thingy you are talking about

However you are talking about "putting waypoints" so I have to assume you are talking about the A-10 again and its use of applied waypoints to line up for landings.

In that case what difference does it make which end of the runway you make your approach on. As I remember the US planes do not receive ILS beams anyhow ---- correct me if I am wrong.

If you are talking about the Russian planes ---just take what the sim gives you.

You are spending entirely to much effort on a non-issue ---if you are a newbie you still have a steep learning curve to climb not withstanding this landing direction issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobe1:
Well I am pretty dumb about this "main heading" thingy you are talking about

However you are talking about "putting waypoints" so I have to assume you are talking about the A-10 again and its use of applied waypoints to line up for landings.

In that case what difference does it make which end of the runway you make your approach on. As I remember the US planes do not receive ILS beams anyhow ---- correct me if I am wrong.

If you are talking about the Russian planes ---just take what the sim gives you.

You are spending entirely to much effort on a non-issue ---if you are a newbie you still have a steep learning curve to climb not withstanding this landing direction issue.

Yes, the US planes receive ILS- but it's imperfect as I describe above.

It makes a difference, because that's the way airports work. Online- it's definitely impolite, immature and lazy to land the opposite of what everyone else is. There is a traffic pattern, it should be observed. We have little to no organized ATC- so use what we do have as effectively as possible. You could crash, You could hit someone else landing or taking off- spoiling the runway for others.

Often people will land, but then line up to take off in the opposite direction. If the airport is so big that you cannot taxi back- fine. But look around first, and communicate your intentions before doing it.

God forbid you join the teamspeak channel that the server is hosting....

Don't you think that to ask or hold a newbie to the standards that are used in online flying is a little to much.

This guy has ligitimate questions but they will solve themselves as he gains experience.

In the meantime he has yet to realize how many questions concerning more complcated issues he will have in the future that will make this airport direction issue pale in comparision.

Now in the meantime---if you want to post in this thread why not post something more helpful and try to answer his concerns rather than boast about online play requirements and how well trained these pilots are.

Hate to be so blunt but your last post was a little condecending.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobe1:
Well I am pretty dumb about this "main heading" thingy you are talking about

However you are talking about "putting waypoints" so I have to assume you are talking about the A-10 again and its use of applied waypoints to line up for landings.

In that case what difference does it make which end of the runway you make your approach on. As I remember the US planes do not receive ILS beams anyhow ---- correct me if I am wrong.

If you are talking about the Russian planes ---just take what the sim gives you.

You are spending entirely to much effort on a non-issue ---if you are a newbie you still have a steep learning curve to climb not withstanding this landing direction issue.

First, yes I am still flying the A-10.
I have been flying for 1 month now from zero knowledge about planes. I consider myself right now confortable with flying both the A-10 and F-15. No problems with the commands in general nor problems with any combat aspect.

My issue right now is with navigation and some knowledge (about ground units and other aircrafts). If I manage that (which i think will be soon) I will move on with russian aircrafts. I think then i just have to learn the cockpit and little things that apply just to russian planes.

Well it is true that is not a real issue but for me I like to clearly understand almost 100% of everything i do and this thingy is making a lot of things clear to me (eg. usa nav is screwed up).

Let me detail what i tried today.

I setup my take off and my landing in the same airport which happened to be #03 Simferopol, which I have the bad luck (or bad sight) of not noticing that it has 2 runways.

01L main heading 013o
01R main heading 009o

I took off from 01L and my waypoints 4 and 5 are aligned with the same runway. Then i have waypoint 6 which is my Landing point.

When i finished my mission i followed my waypoints and when i was in waypoint 4 i was expecting to pick up the ILS beam but i didnt I called inbound anyway and the heading was correct so i kept going. I changed my nav mode to ILS manually and I did pick up the ILS beam but guess what... from 01R!!! hahaha

so basically it is as you guys said, USA planes navigation is kind of disorganized. I will try in other airports(which dont have 2 runways) to see how my luck goes but now i understand better how it works.

@cobe1

The main heading of a runway is basically the direction you will use for take off or landing.
so basically when you are in that runway and take off you will be heading 013o unless you take off facing the secondary heading...
basically you should go some miles away from the runway before facing 013o and trying to make the landing ... or at least thats what is expected unless told otherwise.

(hope you understood the explanation of somebody who is not a pilot... hahaha)

Thanks guys!

Can you answer my other question please?

quote:

Originally posted by Cobe1:
Don't you think that to ask or hold a newbie to the standards that are used in online flying is a little to much.

This guy has ligitimate questions but they will solve themselves as he gains experience.

In the meantime he has yet to realize how many questions concerning more complcated issues he will have in the future that will make this airport direction issue pale in comparision.

Now in the meantime---if you want to post in this thread why not post something more helpful and try to answer his concerns rather than boast about online play requirements and how well trained these pilots are.

Hate to be so blunt but your last post was a little condecending.

No I don't think teaching to low standards benefits anyone. Further- I couldn't care less how you perceive anything.

If YOU want to post things in this thread- know what you're talking about beforehand. If you didn't think US aircraft could receive ILS- then I'd say you are a tad underqualified to answer, yeah?

Maybe you're just trying to inflate your post count?

quote:

Originally posted by Cobe1:
Don't you think that to ask or hold a newbie to the standards that are used in online flying is a little to much.

This guy has ligitimate questions but they will solve themselves as he gains experience.

In the meantime he has yet to realize how many questions concerning more complcated issues he will have in the future that will make this airport direction issue pale in comparision.

Now in the meantime---if you want to post in this thread why not post something more helpful and try to answer his concerns rather than boast about online play requirements and how well trained these pilots are.

Hate to be so blunt but your last post was a little condecending.

Hahaha dont take it too personal it is fine. Actually my main goal right now is to join online games. So this kind of information is very good for me.

Actually i think that if I learn the standards from the beginning would be easier than learning my way and then trying to erase bad habits, specially with landing and taking off because I was online more than once and i have noticed how picky they are with it.

Be cool I am a person that i like to have as much info as possible. Thanks for the help.

I think if you repeat your experimental mission at other airports- you'll find that you are making the best of the US NAV limitations.

You may have to do a little more improvising when you fly someone else's mission. Making sure you are fully briefed (about where you're at/ returning to) before taking off will help.

Your description of "main heading" is not very precise. I assume you mean that if the sim puts you on a runway on a certain compass direction at the start of a mission that qualifies as the "main heading".

If that is the definition then I am ok with that. So you should make every attempt to return on that direction. I am OK with that also.

But in all my years of flying this sim I have no experience with defining "main heading" by any other method.

In other sims I have flown it is up to the tower to decide which runway or direction you should land. If that happens to you in this sim then that only injects nore realisim and I am OK with that also.

If you are still not clear on this subject then pursue it by all means until you are. You are to be commended for trying to learn as much as possible and commiting yourself to becoming the best pilot you can be.

ok 1 image is better than 1000 words:






Look that the Saki airport has main heading of 045o which means that thats where the airport is "pointing at" but at the same time you can see that the opposite direction is 225o which would be the secondary heading.

I just discovered something...

The saki airport has the tower very close to the 04 Runway. So the ILS might only be picked up from that side. While most of the other airports I have seen the tower in the middle, in which case maybe you should be able to pick the signal on both sides... I will experiment with that later.

And actually my question was about AWACS somehow we got in to this topic, which is not a big issue but it is good that we talked about it.

I had two other questions which were:

Which is the covering range of the AWACS.
and Which are CGI units to add them to mission to get answer about ground units locations.

And another thing.

Many missions and many pilots owe a lot of their success or failure to the mission creator.

Depending on the weapons you are given --the waypoints --the skill and weapons he has given the opposing force--the assistance you are given and many other things that the pilot has no control over can make you or break you.

Flying and combat skills will only take you so far. If the mission is poorly designed then your results will most likely be poor also.

I would expect a well designed mission to include waypoints (in the case of US planes) that will take you back to the prefered or designated base and set you up on the correct approach.

If you design a mission I think it is incumbant on you to design it with that in mind also.

Many people create missions --but that does not mean they are all worthwhile ligitimate efforts.

And as for your last two questions --- I have no idea about either of them. You are enchroaching into mission creation and I am not aware of the answer to either question although I consider myself a pretty good mission creator.

I have never tested the AWAC's range and do not feel the need. I place AWAC's in the generl vicinity of the operations area with the requirement to keep it out of range of enemy forces accidently running into it.

THe CGI thing is over my head. I doubt that there is anything that will tell you where ground forces are. I am not aware of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobe1:
And another thing.

Many missions and many pilots owe a lot of their success or failure to the mission creator.

Depending on the weapons you are given --the waypoints --the skill and weapons he has given the opposing force--the assistance you are given and many other things that the pilot has no control over can make you or break you.

Flying and combat skills will only take you so far. If the mission is poorly designed then your results will most likely be poor also.

I would expect a well designed mission to include waypoints (in the case of US planes) that will take you back to the prefered or designated base and set you up on the correct approach.

If you design a mission I think it is incumbant on you to design it with that in mind also.

Many people create missions --but that does not mean they are all worthwhile ligitimate efforts.

I agree with you a lot of times i have to modify the payload and waypoints myself (when i can). I will keep that in mind when i make my own missions later on.

Do us all a favor ---- if you feel the need to quote a statement or paragraph then it is certainly acceptable to do so.

But it makes for difficult and extensive reading to always quote the entire post of the person you are responding to.

Spare me ------

Thanks

No- I don't think there is anything command/ control related to alert you of the location of ground forces.

Just the RWR/TEWS.

Mmm, busy thread! Lots of things being discussed, I'll help with what I can.

FINDING GROUND TARGETS

Raptor_X asked "and which vehicles are CGI?? I have noticed that I want to ask for ground enemy's position but AWACS only answer for airborne bandits."
and again "add them to mission to get answer about ground units locations"

Not sure what you mean by CGI? If you mean GCI - Ground Controlled Intercept then there are two Russian radar vehicles the 1L12EWR and the 55G6EWR that act kinda like a ground based Russian AWACS. They will data link an Air Picture to your Head Down Display(HDD) in your MiG-29S (but not MiG-29A) or Su-27 or Su-33. But they wont talk to you like the AWACS does, they just datalink to your HDD.

There are no units you can add to a mission to tell you where (I assume you mean enemy) ground units are. What you can do in the Mission Editor when you create the mission is to set an ATTACK waypoint and from that, use the TARGET button to designate a GROUP or GROUPS as a target. That will cause the little diamond in your aircraft HUD when you are in ground attack mode. It is supposed to simulate friendly ground forces laser designating the targets for you so you can find them.


AIRBASE LANDING DIRECTIONS

Raptor_X - your earlier post about trying to land at Simpheropol and being rather phased by having to land at the "other" runway was not related to you being in a US aircraft. It is like that for any aircraft on a dual runway Airbase (see more infor about dual runway bases below). US aircraft do have the annoying issue about an IP point (which Russian aircraft do not) that was discussed earlier in the thread. But that is a seperate issue to dual runway bases.

In real life as in Lockon many of the airbases have runways pointing in similar directions. This is because of the prevailing winds in the region.
As for the airbases that differ from this, my guess is:-
Sevastopol - limited space available on that peninsula
Kirovskoe - Crimea mountains perhaps shield it from winds
Gudauta - proximity of the Caucasus mountains
Sukhumi-Dranda - proximity of the Caucasus mountains
Krasnodar-Central - I suspect the SW-NE taxiway was the original runway and the current runway was built after the city expanded.

As for what has been described as the "main" landing direction in this thread, a guy called TekaTeka made a (Modmn compatable) Mod called "Directional Airfield Icon" that will put onto each airbase on the Lockon map a small directional icon to show the default (or "main") landing direction. Doubtless you can find it somewhere on the usual lockon Community sites.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, you can swap the lILS landing direction with a suitable application of strong wind in the appropriate direction, but anyway the "main" landing directions are:-

Crimean airfields:

Khersones
10°
Belbek
71°
Saki
45°
Razdolnoye
0°
Simferopol
09°
Gvardenskoye
13°
Oktyabrskoye
58°
Krasnoyvardenskoye
50°
Dzhankoy
50°
Kirovskoye
104°
Kerch-Bagerovo
45°

Caucasian airfields:

Anapa
42°
Novorossiysk
42°
Krymsk
220°
Gelendzhik
40°
Krasnodar-Center
267°
Krasnodar-Pashkovskiy
47°
Maykop
219°
Sochi-Adler
62°
Gudauta
331°
Sukhumi-Dranda
296°

Double runway airbases.
Most have you take off from one runway and land on the other. Sochi-Adler does not.
The runway number after the slash is the landing direction if you have set the wind
to swap the ILS direction.

In the Crimea

Saki
04L / 22R for takeoff
04R / 22L for landing

Simpheropol
01L / 19R for takeoff
01R / 19L for landing

In the Caucasus

Krasnodar-Pashkovskiy
05L / 23R for takeoff
05R / 23L for landing

Sochi-Adler
24 for takeoff whatever the wind
06 for landing whatever the wind
The smaller Sochi-Adler un-numbered runway (actually 03 / 21)
is not used by ILS, you can use it for Visual landings for fun.

Great post my friend.
You clarified every single question I had in a single run.

I thought of GCIs because in the command menu F5 says AWACS/GCI. So as i can put AWACS in my mission i thought i could load also GCIs and that they would work similar but it seams to be that is not the case.

I believe this topic is done for good now.
Thanks for being patient with this newbie and clarifying my questions. I will be around with more later on.

See you around guys.

Feel free to come back with any more questions. Whatever problem you hit, pretty sure one of us old hands will have hit it already....

...and finally, I should point out that these UBI forums are terrific as a 1st point of contact with the lockon Community, but can be a little quiet.

Most folks who used to be here now use the Forums at www.lockonfiles.com nowadays. You have to register, but its pretty laid back over there and it is probably the premier English language Lockon site for Downloads of skins / missions / tweaks / addons / movies / etc.

The other port of call is the Lockon Developers forums at http://forums.eagle.ru/index.php

One final thing I remembered. I just retested it to be sure and it seems that if you have BOTH an AWACS and a GCI radar (1L13 or 55G6), then the presence of the GCI radar seems to mute the AWACS and he won't talk to you.
If you have just an AWACS it is fine and he will talk to you - wierd!

Aha! so it was not a problem with my PC~...

Thanks for the info!