I was playing a game the other day...Su27's vs. F15's. AWACS on both sides. Even after taking out their awacs, the game was severely lopsided in favor of the F15's. I'm a *decent* pilot, and in normal situations I'm running about a 3:1 kill ratio, but the other night my whole team of Su27's were just being slaughtered.

I was finding that the SU27 doesn't do very well at all against the F15 in almost every situation. BVR is a joke with it's R27ET. The missile is very easily avoided, and seems that by the time it's launched, you've got one or two angry 120's on their way towards you.

There is no way I can see of maintaining a radar lock while effectively dodging 120's. I try beaming, but almost always break lock trying to avoid incoming fire.

Is that the key here? Just beam the enemy missile while trying to maintain a radar lock of your own? I don't have nearly as much experience as a Mig driver as I have with the F15. In my book it's a tough life being a Su27 pilot with skies full of F15's, even with the support of AWACS.

What kind of loadout should I be hauling around?

I have always considered this sim to be lopsided in missile combat. The AI are aggressive and tenacious in their attacks and seem to always have the upper hand in SA and the ability to quickly use their technical abilities far quicker than the human pilot.

The missiles are woefully inadequate (IMO) and having to maintain a constant lock with most of them is a definate handicap.

I have flown many different sims and in this one I actually dread air to air combat.

I think the only way to square up the odds is to create a mission that includes gaggles of SU's where you will be only one of many in the sky and possibly find a situation where you can sneak in a clear shot at an unsuspecting enemy.

Head on merges with one vs one or even flights of 4 will usually get you killed.

There have been some tutorials written about air combat in Lockon but in actual practice I find them mostly useless.

I'm talking multiplayer on UBI. Without a Mig29 or two on your team, Su27's vs F15's is just suicide. The best I was hoping for was killing their awacs and getting into sneaky mode.

from my somewhat limited experience, the AI tends to launch at RMAX. as such, this missle can be relatively easily avoided by snaking, barrel rolling, f-pole, etc. the problem however, is that they usually shoot several more at you too, NOT from RMAX. :/

the R27ET doesn't need maintained lock after firing. it's a thermal guided, fire and forget. you might try ignoring the incoming missle long enough to get your own shot off, and then go completely defensive.

Oh,m I get my R27ET off, I NEVER launch at RMAX. I'll wait a bit, light one off, wait anouther 6-10 seconds and light the second one off, then I start beaming MORE, hit the ECM, pop some chaff and do the missile dance.

Ad-Klaus I agree.

A good rule of thumb for me is "one and run". If you are lucky enough to get a kill then turn tail and run for home.

Not sure if this proves anything or not ---

I created a mission with one SU-27 merging from long range with an F-15C.

The labels showed up at 30 kilometers and the SU fired first (R27ER)each time at 22 kilometers.

The F-15 dove and beamed the missile and popped chaff. Sometimes that saved him and sometimes not.

When he was fortunate to survive the first missile he would start turning into the SU and fired his Aim-120 at about a 45 degree angle.

If that occured the SU would dive and beam and pop chaff to no avail.

The summation is that the fights came out evenly matched --- sometime one would win and other times the other one would.

I was a little surprised --- I would have bet my money on the F-15 --at the very least because of the AIM-120.

You must be running 1.01 or 1.02 or something like that, because with flaming cliffs the 120s are a big joke, and the ET the best missile in the game. If you're running 1.01 you can load your flanker with R-27EA active radar homing missiles, wich should turn the tables a bit. If 1.02 you might be screwed, I don't really know as I've only really used 1.12 (flaming cliffs.) The 29S is really good, 2 ETs and 2 77s, all fire and forget. You just have to make them count.

Nope ---- I am running Flaming Cliffs with 1.12.

I loaded the SU with four 27ER's and two 27ET's along with the 73's.

The SU pilot chose to fire the ER's for his first and only shot.

The F-15 had AIM-120's and AIM-9's. He shot an AIM-120

If you get a good pilot in the 27 then he can kill the F-15. There are plenty of 27 pilots that do a good job against F-15's at hyperlobby. The 120's have been reduced to make the game more balancedin Flaming cliffs. The ER is the first missile the 27 pilot will always fire. It has good range but you have to keep lock on the target until it hits.

watch the videos about Alamo vs Amraam on flanker training..theres several videos about how its done.

Here is the link http://flankertraining.com/ironhand/news.html there are tons of good videos at this site.

quote:

Originally posted by Cobe1:
Nope ---- I am running Flaming Cliffs with 1.12.

I loaded the SU with four 27ER's and two 27ET's along with the 73's.

The SU pilot chose to fire the ER's for his first and only shot.

The F-15 had AIM-120's and AIM-9's. He shot an AIM-120

That was directed at the OP.
Anyway, try Su-30s loaded with R-77s vs the eagles in an AI battle.

Cali,thank you for the link,it's really helpful

although i havent seen it suggested anywhere i found a nice trick to avoid enemy missiles.
instead of Beaming them i turn 180 and firewall the throttle away. this way the missile is very low on energy even though its not launched at Rmax and IF it reaches me dropping chaff or flares goes direktly towards the missile as its direktly behind me..therefore it goes for the chaff or flars more often than if its at a 90 degrees angle off.

also...
the advantage of the 120's fire and forget capabilities is a pain in the butt when you have have 27R/ER
however a the russian aktually have 3 fire and forget missiles!

R77 (very good, BRV capable aswell)
R27T/ET (IR guided)
R73 ( longer range and much better missile than the Aim9)