If you can arrange more than one session with your son's system (or another PC with a floppy drive), then as a first step, post a complete file list for the BIOS backup floppy. Some of the files may be useful in preparing a new floppy, and may help eliminate some steps in the process. If so, that procedure will be somewhat different from what follows.

If you only have one session at the floppy-drive PC, we'll start from scratch. Assuming that the PC is running Win XP (preferably with Service Pack 2 installed):
-- a. Reboot, log into Windows with full Administrator privileges, and close all open applications.
-- b. Start a single Windows Explorer session. (Start > All Programs > Accessories > Windows Explorer) Then, to make certain that we're seeing and doing the same things:
----- 1. On the top task bar, click on Tools > Folder Options... > View tab.
----- 2. Under Advanced settings:, check the following boxes:
-------- Display simple folder view in Explorer's Folders list
-------- Display the contents of system folders
-------- Display the full path in the address bar
-------- Remember each folder's view settings
-------- Show file attributes in Detail View
----- 3. Under Advanced settings:, uncheck the box for Hide protected operating system files (Recommended).
----- 4. Under Hidden files and folders, click on the Show hidden files and folders radio button to activate it.
----- 5. Under Folder views, click on the Apply to All Folders box, then click on Yes.
----- 6. Click on the General tab, then click on the following radio buttons to activate them:
-------- Under Tasks - Show common tasks in folders
-------- Under Browse folders - Open each folder in the same window
-------- Under Click items as follows - Double-click to open an item (single-click to select)
----- 7. Click on Apply > OK.
----- 8. On the top task bar, click on View, then click on Details in the resulting drop-down menu.
-- c. Close Windows Explorer to activate the changes you just made, then start another Windows Explorer session.

-- d. Prepare a new bootable floppy disk.
----- 1. Insert a floppy disk into the drive (NOT the original BIOS backup disk!), and allow the drive light to go out.
----- 2. Using Windows Explorer, in the left-hand pane double-click on My Computer to expand it, then right-click on 3-1/2 Floppy (A: ).
----- 3. In the resulting drop-down menu, click on Format....
----- 5. In the Format 3-1/2 Floppy (A: ) pop-up under Format Options, check the Create an MS-DOS startup disk box. (Do NOT also check the Quick Format box. If you do so, the floppy will only be formatted, not made bootable.)
----- 6. Click on Start > OK, and wait for formatting to complete.
----- 7. Click on OK for Format Complete, then click on Close. You should now have a bootable floppy with the following 15 files on it:
-------- AUTOEXEC.BAT
-------- COMMAND.COM
-------- CONFIG.SYS
-------- DISPLAY.SYS
-------- EGA2.CPI
-------- EGA3.CPI
-------- EGA.CPI
-------- IO.SYS
-------- KEYB.COM
-------- KEYBOARD.SYS
-------- KEYBRD2.SYS
-------- KEYBRD3.SYS
-------- KEYBRD4.SYS
-------- MODE.COM
-------- MSDOS.SYS

-- e. Check to be certain that the disk is in fact bootable and readable.
----- 1. Close Windows Explorer.
----- 2. Leave the floppy in the drive, and click on Start > Turn Off Computer > Restart. The PC should now reboot from the floppy to the MS-DOS prompt. If this doesn't happen, the PC's BIOS may not be set to have the floppy disk as a boot device. This will require accessing the BIOS and setting it up that way. Or, if you don't want to get into the BIOS, skip steps e. through i. – chances are, the floppy is bootable.
-- f. When bootup is complete, you should see the MS-DOS prompt. A:\> or A:\. At this prompt, type dir, and press Enter.
-- g. You should see 13 of the above files on the floppy. (MSDOS.SYS and IO.SYS are hidden/system files that MS-DOS doesn't show without some prodding, which we don't need to do.)
-- h. If you see the 13 files, remove the floppy disk from the drive, then press (all at the same time) the Ctrl-Alt-Del keys to reboot. (If you don't see the 13 files, repeat steps d. through f.)
-- i. Log into Windows with full Administrator privileges, and close all open applications.

-- j. Convert the new bootable floppy into a BIOS rescue disk. Recall that the MSI instructions for rescuing an Award BIOS included preparing a bootable floppy disk with:
----- The Award BIOS flash utility and BIOS code file.
----- An autoexec.bat file with a "flashutility biosfilename" line in it.
You have a PM8M3-V H (Version 4) motherboard, which only BIOS version 3.x supports. The required BIOS code and flash utility files might be on the BIOS backup floppy, but not having that information, we'll download a file containing them.
-- k. Create a folder into which to download the file.
----- 1. Open a Windows Explorer session, in the left-hand pane double-click on My Computer to expand it, then click on <diskname> C: to highlight it.
----- 2. On the top taskbar, click on File > New > Folder.
----- 3. Type a folder name in the "New Folder" box. Let's use Award BIOS for this procedure.
----- 4. Press Enter. You now have a new \Award BIOS folder on the C: drive.
-- l. Download the BIOS update file. We'll download the BIOS file from SOFTPEDIA, since MSI won't allow downloading this file by itself - only via Live Update, apparently.
----- 1. Click here to directly download the "MSI PM8M3-V2 / PM8M3 H-V BIOS 3.4" file, 7211v34.zip. If you want a description of the file, start here.
----- 2. Save 7211v34.zip to the C:\Award BIOS folder you created. (Save the file, do NOT Open it.)
----- 3. Use Windows Explorer to browse to C:\Award BIOS and double-click on 7211v34.zip to unzip it (to C:\Award BIOS).
-------- a. If the file doesn't unzip with a double-click, right-click on it, then click on Extract files....
-------- b. You should see C:\Award BIOS\7211v34 in the Destination path (will be created if it does not exist) box. Delete the \7211v34 to get C:\Award BIOS in the box, and click on OK.
-------- c. The result should be a \7211v34 subfolder in C:\Award BIOS.
----- 4. The unzipped files are 7211v3x.txt, AWFL865.EXE, and W7211VMS.340, in either C:\Award BIOS or C:\Award BIOS\7211v34.

-- m. Copy the BIOS code and flash utility files to the new bootable floppy.
----- 1. Insert the new bootable floppy (NOT the BIOS backup floppy!) into the drive, and allow the drive light to go out.
----- 2. Using Windows Explorer, browse to C:\Award BIOS (or C:\Award BIOS\7211v34), and right-click on W7211VMS.340.
----- 3. In the resulting drop-down menu, click on Copy.
----- 4. Browse to 3-1/2 Floppy (A: ) in the left-hand pane, and right-click on it.
----- 5. In the resulting drop-down menu, click on Paste. There should now be a copy of W7211VMS.340 on the floppy disk.
----- 6. Repeat for AWFL865.EXE. There should now also be a copy of AWFL865.EXE on the floppy disk.

-- n. Revise autoexec.bat on the bootable floppy to contain the proper line of instruction.
----- 1. Browse to autoexec.bat on the bootable floppy, and right-click on the file.
----- 2. Click on Edit in the resulting drop-down menu. This should open the file for editing with Notepad.
----- 3. In the editing box, type in A:\AWFL865.EXE W7211VMS.340. Check carefully for typos, Make certain there's a space between AWFL865.EXE and W7211VMS.340, as well as that it's a backslash (\) after the A: and NOT a forward slash (/) - this is very important!
----- 4. Click on File on the top task bar, then on Save.
----- 5. When the saving is complete and the drive light goes out, close Notepad.
-- o. Remove the floppy from the drive. You're now done with this PC.

So, it's time to see if your BIOS is recoverable. With your own PC powered down, insert the new bootable floppy into the drive. Cross your fingers, toes, eyes, and whatever else is crossable, then power up the machine. If all goes well, the BIOS will be updated. You may or may not see something on the screen. DO NOT turn off the power, reboot the PC, or do anything else (except, follow any instructions that appear on the screen) before the BIOS update is completed. So doing will trash the BIOS.

When BIOS updating is complete, remove the floppy from the drive, then reboot. Do NOT reboot with the floppy in the drive a second time!

Heimdall
Semper ubi sub ubi

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Heimdall G,

Have now printed off the instructions,and will let you know how i get on.at the moment i have not been able to contact the ex,at least on the phone and my son has his phone turned off,but i will keep trying.BTW after Nanouk's suggestion i tried my monitor by connecting it to the laptop.after reconfiguring my laptop i can confirm that my monitor does indeed work. the latest news,as of 21.00 GMT, my son is currently with his girlfriend in devon,and will not be back till next sunday,29th.i cannot use his computer before then,as it is password protected to prevent his younger brother trashing his work,so i may have to come up with something before then.i will keep you posted

This message has been edited. Last edited by: snake-eyes59,

Nothing is ever easy, eh?

My compliments to your son for choosing a less-satisfying means of avoiding interference by younger brother than duct tape and a dark closet!

Maybe you could lay hands on a USB external floppy disk drive. If the laptop you're using has a spare USB port, this'll allow you to it to do floppy revisions, copying, etc.

Here's an on-line example, from Amazon UK. A brick-and-mortar computer parts store near you ought to have something similar.

Thankyou for the suggestion,Heimdall. i will go and see what i can pick up tomorrow (wednesday)

Hello Heimdall. Have purchased a floppy reader for the laptop.I have followed your instructions to the letter,up to the point that there should be 15 files on the disc.I am only showing 10.They are:EGA2.CPI EGA3.CPI EGA.CPI KEYB.COM KEYBOARD.SYS KEYBRD2.SYS KEYBRD3.SYS KEYBRD4.SYS MODE.COM. The files on the so called back-up disc are: AWDBOOT.ROM AWDFLH.EXE CHECKDSK.BAT CHOICE.EXE COPYING.TXT FDKERNEL.LSM FDXM.SYS KERNEL16.SYS KERNEL.SYS README TDSK EXE. I have not tried to boot from this disc on the laptop,as i do not want to damage it

This message has been edited. Last edited by: snake-eyes59,

Heimdall,i may have jumped the gun,but i have created a disc that incudes the ten files from my last post,plus the W7211VMS.340,and AWFL865.EXE files,but have not done anything else with it because of the missing AUTOEXEC.BAT,COMMAND.COM,files and my laptop is not set-up at present to boot from a floppy,so could not tell if the other files(MSDOS.SYS,10.SYS)are there

WARNING!
The bootable floppy disk that has AUTOEXEC.BAT, W7211VMS.340, and AWFL865.EXE on it, and your BIOS backup floppy, are intended to be used for booting up ONLY your MSI machine. DO NOT boot up any other PC with these disks! Doing so will kill any other PC by writing the wrong code to its BIOS!

WARNING!
In Windows Explorer, DO NOT double-left-click on either CHECKDSK.BAT or AUTOEXEC.BAT, because doing so will run them. (Or, depending on your laptop's settings, single-left-clicking on a .BAT file may run it.) Only RIGHT-click on these batch files to open them for editing. Running either batch file will kill your laptop by writing the wrong code to its BIOS!

********************************

The other 5 files should not be missing. AUTOEXEC.BAT, COMMAND.COM, CONFIG.SYS, IO.SYS, and MSDOS.SYS are hidden files, which you apparently do not have your laptop set to display. So that you can see these hidden files, carry out steps a. through c., above, for the laptop.

Do NOT carry out steps e. through i., above. Assume that the floppy is bootable if it contains the proper files.

Carry out steps n. and o. to add the proper line of instruction to AUTOEXEC.BAT.

After carrying out steps n. and o., check the floppy to be certain that it contains:
----- AUTOEXEC.BAT
----- AWFL865.EXE
----- COMMAND.COM
----- CONFIG.SYS
----- DISPLAY.SYS
----- EGA2.CPI
----- EGA3.CPI
----- EGA.CPI
----- IO.SYS
----- KEYB.COM
----- KEYBOARD.SYS
----- KEYBRD2.SYS
----- KEYBRD3.SYS
----- KEYBRD4.SYS
----- MODE.COM
----- MSDOS.SYS
----- W7211VMS.340

If these files are all on the floppy, you're done with it. Immediately remove the floppy from the drive. You're also done with the laptop.

Now let's see if your MSI PC's BIOS is recoverable. With your MSI PC powered down, insert the new bootable floppy into the drive, and power up the machine. If all goes well, the BIOS will be updated. You may or may not see anythingg on the screen. DO NOT turn off the power, reboot the PC, or do anything else (except, follow any instructions that appear on the screen) before the BIOS update is completed. So doing will trash the BIOS.

When BIOS updating is complete, remove the floppy from the drive, then reboot. Do NOT reboot with the floppy in the drive a second time!


The files on your original BIOS backup floppy tell me that, if booting up with the floppy you created (the one which has AUTOEXEC.BAT, W7211VMS.340, and AWFL865.EXE on it) doesn't help, there's another way to go. But first let's try the bootable floppy you created.

If that floppy does not help, check the original BIOS backup floppy and post back with the names of all hidden files, which you can now see. Again, in Windows Explorer, DO NOT double-left-click (or single-left-click) on CHKDSK.BAT, because doing so will run it.

.Heimdall my laptop is set as per your instructions already,in fact i have just double-checked to make sure.the only thing i cannot do is:"show file attributes in detail view",as that does not appear on my check list.i read your warnings,perhaps i should have said "because the other files did not appear to be on the new floppy,i did not try steps e through i.The new disc is still not showing the AUTOEXEC.BAT file so i cannot edit anything on there

This message has been edited. Last edited by: snake-eyes59,

Which operating system is your laptop running, Win XP Home Edition or Win XP Professional, and is Service Pack 2 (SP2) installed? Start > Control Panel > System > General tab has that information.

Also, is the file system NTFS or FAT32? Click on Start > Control Panel > Administrative Tools > Computer Management > Storage > Disk Management, and look in the File System column.

Sorry heimdall i should have told you earlier.i am running XP Professional,with SP2 and the file system is NTFS. I have now been able to read all hidden files by disabling "hide protected files",so the following files are on the new disc created yesterday.

DISPLAY.SYS EGA1.CP1 EGA3.CP1 EGA.CP1 KEYB.COM KEYBOARD.SYS KEYBRD2.SYS KEYBRD3.SYS KEYBRD4.SYS MODE.COM W7211VMS.340 AWFL865.EXE COMMAND.COM CONFIG.SYS 10.SYS MSDOS.SYS

there is 16 files on there now. On the original bios backup disc there are now 14 files as follows

AWDBOOT.ROM AWDFLH.EXE CHECKDSK.BAT CHOICE.EXE COPYING.TXT FDKERNEL.LSM FDXM.SYS KRENEL16.SYS KERNEL.SYS README TDSK.EXE AUTOEXEC.BAT CONFIG.SYS COMMAND.COM

This message has been edited. Last edited by: snake-eyes59,

That's much better! Sounds like all you need on the new floppy is AUTOEXEC.BAT with the proper instruction in it.

Let's do that. Print out the following, and check off each line as you complete it:
-- a. Log into Windows with full Administrator privileges, and close all open applications.
-- b. Insert the new bootable floppy disk (NOT the original BIOS backup disk!) containing W7211VMS.340 and AWFL865.EXE into the drive.
-- c. Open a single Windows Explorer session and browse to the floppy disk.
-- d. Right-click on DISPLAY.SYS on the floppy, and click on Copy in the drop-down menu.
-- e. Right-click on the 3-1/2 Floppy (A: ) listing in the left-hand Explorer pane, and click on Paste in the drop-down menu. You now have Copy of DISPLAY.SYS on the floppy.
-- f. Right-click on Copy of DISPLAY.SYS and click on Rename in the drop-down menu.
-- g. Type AUTOEXEC.BAT in the rename box, press Enter, and click on Yes. You now have a file named AUTOEXEC.BAT on the floppy.
-- h. Right-click on AUTOEXEC.BAT, and click on Edit in the drop-down menu. The file will open for editing in Notepad.
-- i. Position the mouse cursor at the top left-hand corner of the editing screen, right-click, and click on Select All in the drop-down menu. This highlights everything in the file.
-- j. Press Delete to delete the entire contents of the file. The editing box should now be completely blank.
-- k. In the editing box, type A:\AWFL865.EXE W7211VMS.340 as the first line. Check carefully for typos, Make certain that there's a space between AWFL865.EXE and W7211VMS.340, as well as that it's a backslash (\) after the A: and NOT a forward slash (/) - this is very important!
-- l. Click on File in the top task bar, then on Save.
-- m. When saving is complete and the drive light goes out, close Notepad. There are now 17 files on the floppy.
-- n. Remove the floppy from the drive.
-- o. With your MSI PC powered down, insert the new bootable floppy into its drive, and power up the MSI PC.
----- 1. If all goes well, the BIOS will be updated. You may or may not see anything on the screen.
----- 2. DO NOT turn off the power, reboot the PC, or do anything else (except, follow any instructions that appear on the screen) before the BIOS update is complete.
-- p. When BIOS updating is complete (no floppy drive activity for at least 5 minutes, or an on-screen message noting completion), remove the floppy from the MSI PC's drive.
-- q. Press Ctrl-Alt-Del all at the same time to reboot, instead of turning off/turning on the power.
----- 1. Do NOT reboot with the floppy in the drive!

Post back with what happens.

Well here is the good news.we have created one bootable floppy,which the MSI computer began to read,or at least there was activity from the disc drive.this went on for longer than before,and when things had stopped happening for a while,i removed the floppy and pressed alt con del,nothing happened,so it looks like i am out of luck even after all your efforts on my behalf

Hmmm. Ctrl-Alt-Del should have worked. Did you see anything on the screen?

Second choice is turning off power and then turning it on again. Try that, if you haven't already done so. What happens - any beeps?

Yes Heimdall i tried that,and no,there are no bleeps,but the light on the dvd player comes on momentarily,and that's all that happens,plus there was still nothing on the screen

No beeps is good! This means that the BIOS doesn't see the following problems:
-- One long, two short beeps = video error, BIOS cannot initialize the video chipset.
-- One long beep, three short beeps = no video card or bad video RAM.
-- One long beep = RAM problem.
-- Two short beeps = non-fatal error (reseat RAM, check other components)

If your PC is more than about 2 years old, the CMOS battery may need to be replaced. This battery maintains the time, date, hard disk and other configuration settings contained in the CMOS ROM chip while the PC is turned off.

Early indications of a battery that is weak and near failure is the PC losing the correct date and time when turned off, and/or a message at startup saying something like, "Hardware information is lost." Especially if you've been seeing that sort of thing, try replacing the battery. It's on the same end of the motherboard as the PCI slots, and next to the VT8237R chip and JCLR1.

Try clearing the CMOS ROM again.
-- a. Power down the PC.
----- 1. Unplug the power cord from the wall socket.
-- b. Open the case, and locate JCLR1 (clear CMOS pins) on the motherboard.
----- 1. There should be a jumper across pins 1 and 2. This is the normal-operation position.
----- 2. Take careful note of the original position of the jumper!
-- c. Gently pull the jumper straight up (NOT to the side, or you could bend the pins), then gently push it completely down on pins 2 and 3. Make certain that both ends of the jumper are on a pin.
-- d. Wait about 30 seconds while the CMOS ROM is being cleared.
-- e. Gently pull the jumper straight up, then gently push it completely down on pins 1 and 2 (original position). Make certain that both ends of the jumper are on a pin.
-- f. Close the case, plug in the power cord, and power up the PC.
-- g. After the DVD drive shows activity, wait at least 5 minutes for something to happen.
-- h. If nothing happens in 5 minutes, turn off power to the PC, wait 10 seconds, then turn on power again.
----- 1. Immediately after turning on power, start pressing the Del key to enter BIOS Setup. Don't press Del and hold it down - press and release the key about once per second.
----- 2. Continue to press and release Del for at least a minute.
-- i. If you get into Setup, check each page to be certain the settings are correct.
----- 1. When you're done, press F10 to save changes and exit BIOS Setup.
----- 2. If you don't know what's correct and what isn't, use the arrow keys to highlight Load Optimized Defaults on the first Setup page. Press Enter, then Y (Yes) to accept the defaults.
-- j. Reboot.

Have now tried three or four times to get it running ,but i am getting no response from the computer at all

I've got one last suggestion. Normally, I wouldn't make this suggestion because the unknowns involved could result in BIOS problems, but then you already have BIOS problems. And it looks like there's nothing to lose at this point.

My thinking is that maybe the BIOS chip was partially damaged during the Live Update. If this is the case, removing the jumper block from JWP1 to "unlock" the boot block area may change where the BIOS code is written on the chip enough that a BIOS update will be successful. Also, referring to JWP1, the manual says that "When locked, the BIOS boot block area cannot be updated." What this may really mean is that the JWP1 jumper must be removed to allow a proper BIOS update. Some motherboards do have this sort of thing as a safety feature, and the need to remove the jumper block prior to a BIOS update with your board may have gotten lost in translation.

With that in mind, try the following:
-- a. Unplug the MSI PC's power cord from the wall socket.
-- b. Open the case, and locate JWP1 (BIOS flash jumper pins) on the motherboard. It's next to the BIOS chip.
----- 1. There should be a jumper across the pins, which is the normal-operation position.
-- c. Remove the jumper from JWP1.
-- d. Check to make certain that *all* cables and power wires are properly connected. Sometimes things can get knocked loose and go unnoticed.
-- e. Insert the new bootable floppy into the drive, and power up the PC.
----- 1. If all goes well, the BIOS will be updated. You may or may not see anything on the screen.
----- 2. DO NOT turn off the power, reboot the PC, or do anything else (except, follow any instructions that appear on the screen) before the BIOS update is complete.
-- f. When BIOS updating is complete (no floppy drive activity for at least 5 minutes, or an on-screen message noting completion), remove the floppy from the MSI PC's drive.
-- g. Press Ctrl-Alt-Del all at the same time to reboot. If that doesn't work, turn power to the PC off, wait 10 seconds, then turn power back on.
-- h. Immediately start pressing the Del key to enter BIOS Setup. Don't press Del and hold it down - press and release the key about once per second.
----- 2. Continue to press and release Del for at least a minute.
-- i. If you get into Setup, check each page to be certain the settings are correct.
----- 1. When you're done, press F10 to save changes and exit BIOS Setup.
----- 2. If you don't know what's correct and what isn't, use the arrow keys to highlight Load Optimized Defaults on the first Setup page. Press Enter, then Y (Yes) to accept the defaults.
-- j. Reboot.
-- k. When it's convenient, shut down the PC, and unplug the power cord from the wall socket
-- l. Replace the jumper on JWP1's pins, and close the PC's case.

Good morning Heimdall.Having disconnected everything.i had a good look at the board.There is no JWP1 anywhere on the board.the nearest thing with the same 4 digits is JPW1,and that is a four way connector from the power supply.there is however a set or three pins with a jumper on situated between the battery and the via-vt8237r-plus chip.in the user's guide this is called JBAT2,but on the board it is JCLR. Without this jumper in place the computer does not even turn on

From the depths of ignorance: Seems like a jumper designator would not be JWPx but rather JMPx.

Hello Wstrohm,you would have thought so,but that does not appear to be the case with my make of motherboard.BTW Heimdall,i have just emailed a UK bios chip replacement/reprogramme company to find out how much it would cost to remove/reprogramme/refit the BIOS chip as a last resort,i have too much work on the system that is not backed up and cannot afford to lose it.(if i haven't lost it already!)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: snake-eyes59,