But the drones, huds, readouts, diamonds, third person view and idiotic and corny video overlays were distracting and added nothing to the story. Im not saying this was the only thing wrong with the games its just how does this equate to the whole Ghost Recon canon? The fact is it doesnt and thats why it alienated the fanbase. Beats me why they didnt ask the fans what they wanted in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by ms-kleaneasy:

I'm not disbuting thats how many feel about the games, what I am disbuting is that this felt change in gameplay comes from somewhere other than the futuristic direction

Yeah OGR took a futuristic setting and did it in a realistic way. GRAW took a futuristic setting and added buck rodgers.

First of all, I would like to thank Kimi and Kleaneasy for this topic and their efforts in keeping our frustrations about the lack of information at bay. Everyone here should keep in mind that it is not the fault of the community managers if Ubisoft corporate decide to keep a lid on the state of the development process and planned release dates. Under the circumstances, I think Kimi and Kleaneasy have a tough enough job as it is, and just like most of us they would probably prefer to be able to provide more details and positive news. Thanks again - I know it's not easy being in our shoes.

So there will be a new Ghost Recon, that much is certain. Whether it will come out in a couple of months or a year from now is actually not all that important to me. I am, first and foremost, glad that there is in fact a Ghost Recon sequel on the horizon at all, as this once again gives me some hope that maybe - just maybe - this time there might finally be a worthy Ghost Recon successor in the works somewhere. For those of you who don't know my posts over at GhostRecon.net this probably sounds rather confusing, so I will try to explain myself.

I am a 'hardcore' Ghost Recon fan, and I have been from the very first day of its release back in November 2001. Yes, I am talking about THAT Ghost Recon, the one sometimes referred to as 'OGR', 'Original Ghost Recon', 'Ghost Recon 1', or 'Ghost Recon Classic'. To me, all of those titles sound terribly wrong, because in my personal opinion there is only ONE Ghost Recon - THE Ghost Recon.

Yes, I am well aware that this might be a controversial opinion to utter here, especially since this forum thread is shared between console and PC gamers, but I simply feel compelled to make a stand for my all-time-favorite game here. Because to me, comparing Ghost Recon to the later Advanced Warfighter installments of the franchise feels like comparing chess to tic-tac-toe.

This is by no means flamebait, but merely the expression of my personal opinion which I don't expect to be shared by all of you, and before you attack me for my admittedly extreme point of view, or - even worse and equally futile - attempt to convince me otherwise, please allow me to give you my reasons.

Ghost Recon is a squad-based military tactical shooter, an infantry simulation of a special forces unit if you will. It was the first of its kind back in the day, and it took realism and strategy in shooter games to a completely new level by combining tactical aspects of Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six series with non-linear gameplay in an open 'sandbox' outdoors environment and adding cutting-edge hierarchical multi-level AI, completely unparalleled to this very day.

Although it contains some hints of 'future warrior' technology in a couple of weapons and and equipment (military materiel in actual field-testing at the time), Ghost Recon basically delivers a very accurate depiction of what infantry combat of elite special forces units far behind enemy lines really looks and, more importantly, feels like.

The result is a game that will totally immerse you in its simulated reality and have your palms sweat of suspense within minutes of gameplay. Complete non-linearity and unsurpassed enemy AI guarantees that no two missions are ever the same and keeps you on your toes whenever you sign up for yet another round on the battlefield. Yes, even today. Almost ten years after playing this game for the very first time, Ghost Recon has lost none of its fascination for me.

Luckily, I am not the only one who feels that way. As WhiteKnight77 already stated before me, when you look up the rankings of tactical shooters played online today, you will find Ghost Recon - that game title from 2001 - among the top ten most played every single day. An active online multiplayer community including several active ladder/league competitions from 2001 to 2009... and with no end in sight - that should give you a clue that there must be something very special about this game.

And the online multiplayer numbers only tell half of the story. A recently published collection of Ghost Recon mods (fan-made modifications) spans a total of 7 Data-DVDs, with several hundreds if not thousands of mods released for the game to this day. And when you head over to GhostRecon.net you will find that there are still more mods under active development for months and years to come.

In the entire history of computer games there is only a small handful of titles that have had the privilege of such amazing longevity and ongoing fan support. To achieve this kind of following, a game has to be more than a short-whiled diversion, it has to offer more than cheap action thrills and eye candy, it has to provide something that is found nowhere else - something that makes it stand out in the crowd.

It has been argued again and again, and it seems quite difficult to pinpoint and easily define what exactly the reason for Ghost Recon's incredible success is. I probably don't know the full answer to this riddle either and trying to explain it here would certainly go beyond the scope of this already very long post, but I know one thing for sure - for me, that special quality which set the game apart was completely lost in all of the so-called 'sequels'.

When I look at the franchise today and I see the GRAWs withering away in Ghost Recon's shadow within just months of their release, I cannot say that it surprises me. Being completely different in all but name, they utterly failed to follow their ancestor in his huge footsteps off the beaten track and rather walked off on the broad and comfortable road of shallow mainstream rail-action-shooter entertainment. While it may look promising and easier to travel at first sight, this road is used by many contenders, and in the end only the newest ones get their short moment in the sun of novelty on this path.

While the GRAWs delivered some new graphics and catered to the fresh young two-thumbs-controller console clientele, they have none of the qualities of a tactical shooter. Where Ghost Recon earned its game-of-the-year awards by being praised far and wide as "the thinking man's shooter", the GRAWs took their place among countless other no-brains-required-just-follow-this-path-and-shoot-everything action games, with all the on-screen-comic-strip-HUD-diamonds-cross-com-health-charge-meter-and-i-don't-know-what that comes with that kind of arcade run-and-gun shovelware these days.

Sure, this is a popular genre - especially among console kids, but why on earth would someone want to take the Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon game franchise down that road? Why not create some new game identity for that market, with some fancy name that better targets the new key audience, e.g. something with "Ultra", "Mega", "Super", or even "Advanced" in the title and many 'cool' and 'phat' colorful pictures on the package? But if I buy a new Clancy novel I don't expect to get a comic book, either.

The magical real-world combat sim immersion of old is gone, wiped out by a Captain Mitchell superhero fantasy story, an overbearing cross-com-toting sci-fi HUD, clumsy console-centric third person view puppet-string controls, supernatural bullet-resistant health, and "you are leaving the mission area" messages if you try do something other than following that narrow path prescribed for you by the developers. The spine-tingeling edge-of-your-seat experience of Ghost Recon is replaced by a semi-interactive cinematic sequence that requires about as much firing brain cells as watching television, with the level of excitement to match.

As you can see in other posts of this forum thread, there is indeed an audience for this kind of shallow action entertainment, and rightly so. Video games, especially console titles, are often played for the sole purpose of a slight diversion, for a quick break from reality and some fun time that allows you to 'switch off your head' for a moment and let your subconscious and reflexes take over. The plethora of games catering to this kind of entertainment certainly has a valid raison d'être, but there is also another audience of gamers out there which expect their games to deliver more than just thoughtless diversion, and their choice of games is traditionally a lot more limited.

Tom Clancy games used to provide exactly what this audience wanted. They delivered on the computer what Tom Clancy novels offered in paper form: Superbly clever entertainment with a twist of highly detailed realism that in combination delivered a much deeper and involved enjoyment for the consumer than previously experienced in computer games - especially of the 'shooter' breed. The GRAWs have taken that quality away from Ghost Recon, just like Vegas has killed the tactical aspects of Rainbow Six - so an entire family of once uniquely smart computer games has left huge parts of their fan base behind to jump on the mainstream bandwagon of shovelware.

Just like countless other first-hour fans of Ghost Recon, I have waited for the future installments with bated breath, hoping for a worthy successor. As it turned out, we've been holding our breath now for almost ten years, so by now we are in desperate need of life support! To add insult to injury, the makers of those new games not only failed to provide us with a breath of fresh air, but also spat in our collective face by completely ignoring the wishes and desires of their most loyal customers, because what we got form Ubisoft so far is nothing short of an insult to any serious tactical shooter fan.

Let's not forget where this franchise is originally coming from. The early fans of Ghost Recon, the ones that ate it up with spoons back in 2001, the ones that started hundreds of fan web sites, created countless mods, founded multiplayer clans, established online gaming leagues - these fans made Ghost Recon into much much more than the simple silver disc it came on: They turned it into a cult.

This cult following is what allowed the franchise to come into being in the first place, this devoted fan-ship created the huge wave of word-of-mouth recommendations that put Ghost Recon on the map for masses of its players. Please forgive the demonstration of self-confidence here, but without us devotees, Ghost Recon would have come and gone just like thousands of other games before and after - with a short life span of shining novelty and an early death once that novelty rubs off and something new comes along.

So far, all that Ubisoft has done with the capital of fan devotion is milk it. They slapped the Ghost Recon brand name on some unrelated half-baked games to quickly and repeatedly cash in on the runaway success of the series' founder, abusing a unique masterpiece to bolster support for common and average-at-best so-called 'sequels', and as mentioned before, they did it to other brilliant games like Rainbow Six in a similar fashion. When you browse the web in search of discussions around this subject you can easily find thousands and thousands of posts of the same general tenor: What an absolute shame!

Well, after all this venting of suppressed anger that had build up over the years, I want to end my little rant on a positive note. Because in spite of all this abuse, the true Ghost Recon fans are still here... waiting. Waiting, because we simply refuse to believe that this will have been the last word in a saga that began with such unimaginable promise, waiting with a child's unwillingness to believe in the unjust.

So here I stand in front of you, Ubisoft, with nothing to offer but a desperate plea to finally do right by the loyal fans and give us what we have been waiting for all these years:

Please give us our beloved Ghost Recon back!

quote:

Originally posted by ApexMods:
First

That was a bit long...you lost me at "First"

I don't have anything against the community managers or moderators.

I do have something against the UBI leadership that decided the best way to market a game and build a fan base is to keep following this horrible formula for releasing a game:

1) Announce games under development at start of fiscal year to shareholders

2) Do not release any further information until game is 90% done so that there will be no need for interaction with fans that could point out major flaws in the direction of the game before it is too late.

3) At 90% completion release an exclusive look to a few web sites and magazines that always put a positive spin on reviews of UBI games no matter how bad the game may actually be.

4) No matter what the truth is, claim in all press releases and interviews that the game "is going back to its roots" and is "what the fans were asking for".

5) Come up with an excuse like "we didn't want to take time away from final game development" or "the scale of the game is too large" when asked why there won't be a demo prior to release.

6) Wait until 2 weeks before release to finally come in here and answer only certain questions from forum members that haven't been answered anywhere else.

So...how about we drop this old formula that hasn't helped UBI's bottom line and have someone from UBI in these forums that can actually talk about the game while it is being developed??? K? Thnx

quote:

Originally posted by fires2006:
But the drones, huds, readouts, diamonds, third person view and idiotic and corny video overlays were distracting and added nothing to the story. Im not saying this was the only thing wrong with the games its just how does this equate to the whole Ghost Recon canon? The fact is it doesnt and thats why it alienated the fanbase. Beats me why they didnt ask the fans what they wanted in the first place.

Well, the Advanced Warfighter technology was certainly poorly executed (and the screen-in-screen NARCOM cutscenes were indeed toe-curlingly corny). But that was more a case of the game as a whole having some serious issues, rather than individual features.

And not liking this hi-tech gadgetry is most certainly a legitimate opinion. It's just that the GRAW gadgetry has been touted time and again as the central problem with GRAW. But the fact is that even with all the hi-tech stuff stripped away, GRAW would still be sorely lacking in many respects, when compared to GR.

Also, hi ApexMods! For those of you who don't frequent GR.net, ApexMods is the guy behind the GR mod "Heroes Unleashed". It's quite simply fabulous, an overall improvement on virtually all aspects of GR, without removing an iota of realism. And with a particularly nasty AI to boot.

Edited due to offensive, derogatory content

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MiNeRvA.,

quote:

[color:red]edited due to offensive, derogatory content

Kids these days...

Edit: Sorry, had to edit out the quoted part!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MiNeRvA.,

"insert bad word" check, "insert another bad word" check.

Oh my god, that's it! All this time wondering why Ubisoft haven't released our next beloved Ghost Recon and this guy comes up with the answer!! Well, the executives at Ubi are sure to be cracking on with things now they know what to do...and they sure know the consequences if they don't: he won't buy their games ever again!!!

...****.

Edit: Sorry had to remove quoted words, Min

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MiNeRvA.,

Yeah I'm sure their heartbroken.

Oh and Pest you forgot:

7) When it looks like the release is only a few weeks away, it get delayed yet again. For "Financial Reasons" that make no sense financially. Because "Their scared of COD" again making no sense, since it's christmas time, a time when their game will sell more even with competition than say July. Because "Everyone else is delaying games too" Such a lame excuse it's pathetic to even comment on it.

quote:

Originally posted by Melee316:
Yeah I'm sure their heartbroken.

Oh and Pest you forgot:

7) When it looks like the release is only a few weeks away, it get delayed yet again. For "Financial Reasons" that make no sense financially. Because "Their scared of COD" again making no sense, since it's christmas time, a time when their game will sell more even with competition than say July. Because "Everyone else is delaying games too" Such a lame excuse it's pathetic to even comment on it.

Do you know how a PLC is run? If you do you would know that if Ubi hasn't got many games to release next year their financial sheet will look poor, so what they do they delay the game so their financials for that next year look better, it makes sense from not only an economic stand point but from an investors who will be injecting cash to make money back. Why would any investor want to buy shares in a company for big releases, ubi get their money from investors it's a happy balance, can complain about it sure, but ti's their money that allow these 25-30 million budgets to exist.

well i'm very happy a new ghost recon is coming out..didn't like the advanced warfighter games compared to gr2 and summit strike on xbox..saying that..i still played and still play advanced warfighter everytime i get a chance..hopefully we can get the true game in gr4..i've had xbox,360 but livin' life on the amazing ps3..BRING ON GR4!!!
i'm a die hard fan..no other war games makes me come back for more as the ghost recon series does

quote:

Originally posted by FirefoxICE:
well i'm very happy a new ghost recon is coming out..didn't like the advanced warfighter games compared to gr2 and summit strike on xbox..saying that..i still played and still play advanced warfighter everytime i get a chance..hopefully we can get the true game in gr4..i've had xbox,360 but livin' life on the amazing ps3..BRING ON GR4!!!
i'm a die hard fan..no other war games makes me come back for more as the ghost recon series does

What the hell. What is the difference between Advanced war fighter and The ghost recon? Would multiplayer feel the same at aiming and movement?

The differences are too many to list.

navyseal-us1990, go play the original Ghost Recon and Ghost Recon Island Thunder, and you'll see the differences. AW was a cake walk compared to the unforgiving style of OGR/GRIT. Basically, OGR/GRIT is more hardcore, and Advanced Warfighter is more hollywood.

While after a good year or "It's in development" we finally get a name Ghost Recon Predator and who announced it? Not Ubi oh no, they couldn't even confirm that for frig sakes. Wow a title, but we can't confirm or deny it. Yeah whoopi.

Least IGN has enough since to give us some info, even if it is just a title and may not be the finished title, it's still something.

Whats up boys heard the news, it's not much but I got it off of gameradar.com Missed the debates but most of my time has been following this disaster of a move from INFINITY WARD with PC servers. But here's hopeing that RED STORM can come out swingging with somthing good for me on the PC. Till next time COMMANDO BLACK.

Any updates on this as it's about 2010 now. Thx. I'm hungering for a GRAW for Christmas, 2009...

Don't know why i never joined these forums before. I've only ever played GRAW and GRAW 2, but i love em and im a kick *** player.

I mainly joine dthese forums to see if there is a new Ghost recon game coming out. I am delighted to find out that there is, i am in no hurry for another one. Anytime from halfway thrue 2010 would be a great time. There are many games i am currently/will be playing over the next few months.

I'll be sticking around on these forums, and once i find out to edit profile, sig and picture ill be doing it.

wanna chat on xbox live, gamertag is:
Gh0stRec0nElite

Peace !

quote:

xxbladeboyxx

Good to meet you & welcome to the forums! Have fun w/ GRAW. I sure (still) am.