This month I went from playing CoD4 religiously to taking a break and hitting up GRAW2 after nearly 3 months... Man. While it is true they are two different games it goes without saying that GRAW seriously needs to pick up the pace and evolve. Clunky movement, slow aiming, inability to fall off parts of the enviroment (not to mention the inability to jump), too many menus (especially the grenades), useless "lean" feature, the so-called "inability to prevent spawn-camping", unnecessarily complicated (i.e- too many buttons) UAV/Cross-com feature, and horrible and stubbornly game lobby system make the franchise old news. Until GRAW fixes these problems and more, RS:V and CoD4 will continue to dominate the Xbox Live.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dirty_Jackal,

This thread is in no way shape or form meant to turn into a "P!$$!ng contest" about "Waht am teh best gamez". I would like to see everyone in the Ghost Recon community weigh in on how this franchise can become better.

Devs. take notice.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dirty_Jackal,

Things that need improvement:

1.) First off, spawn points gotta go. CoD4 hit the nail smack center on the dome piece. For those who aren’t familiar with CoD4’s spawn system it works as follows. One team starts on one end of the map and the other on the other end. If this sounds similar that’s because it is, but all similarities stop here. When you advance towards the other teams current spawn you have the ability to drive them from that spawn and force them to a new location. BUT! There is a catch. You can only force the opposing team from their current spawn if the majority of your team is in that area. Meaning if you end up making it to the enemy’s spawn by yourself they will continue to spawn in that area. Much like real life. For instance, say one man gets close to where your base of operations would be, its only one man so if your team is getting hurt/killed it would be smart to send in reinforcements to take him out (i.e.- spawning in that area) but if the entire opposing force is outside your door step it is unlikely reinforcements are gonna be dropped anywhere NEAR there. This is where GRAW goes wrong. Even if you have the entire team 5 feet from where you will eventually spawn (all THREE) locations you will keep coming to greet your impending doom over and over again. There are no more excuses for spawn-camping issue. Fix it.

2.) Too many menus not enough buttons. From my experience with the game I’ve noticed many things about the button scheme. It’s jumbled, in-depth and slow- a good example for this complaint is the Cross-com/UAV settings. For one the vast majority of games I have played online do not even use the UAV, most see in on the same lines as the KillCam, which is only used for newer inexperienced players or those who want to prevent sniping in their servers. The UAV in the online setting could and should probably just be sacked for this reason, but I digress. Currently both “←” and “→” on the D-pad changes which teammate you wish communicate/view status of. Remove both of these commands (more on this later). Next remove the “Back Order” or “↓” on the D-pad. What you are left with is the “Go Order” or “↑” on the D-pad. Replace “←” and “→” with the system that CoD4 uses (“←” switches to accessories like M203, C4, claymores). This will speed up combat time emensly! “→” on the D-pad could be used to activate your NVG/”Neat vision” or as a quick change for either ROF (rate of fire) or types of grenades (again speeding up the time it takes to make tactical decisions, and thus making combat more realistic). Next button on the list for revamp is the “Right Stick”. GRAW supposedly prides itself on realism and yet, guns with Aimpoints and EO Tech red dots mysteriously have x3 sights even no there is clearly no 3x magnifier attached. If you have a gun with a scope or red dot you cannot BOTH precision aim AND zoom, its unrealistic and laughable. Precision Aim stays and replaces the zoom ability. It will work something like this: If it is an ACOG (or similar red dot/scope combos) or riflescope it will zoom in, if it is a red dot (like the Aimpoint or EO Techs), you will see the outline of the sight along with the red dot, and if it neither (such as the MP5SD6, T-95, etc.) it will be iron sights. With the “Right Stick” button available this leaves the ability to melee, change ROF, or more importantly JUMP! Next button up for retirement is the “Lean” button (“LB” on the controller). I honestly don’t know what UBI was thinking when this was implemented, out of all the players I have fought with and brought this topic up, no one uses it. Just for laughs lean to one side… Done? Ok, good. Now, go online and try leaning in GRAW2… In the history of man, leaning has never taken as long as it does in this game. Remove it. This leaves the button open for a quick smoke grenade toss. Next button is “RB”. While I’m sure I will probably take some flak for this idea, but to mean the whole concept of being able to change which side of my body I’m looking at just seems unrealistic, while its true you can (and should) learn to be able to use both left and right hands when wielding a firearm in battle, it doesn’t actually change what side of your body you are looking at, only which side of your body you are exposing to fire. With this button removed it can be replaced with a quick grenade toss. That should just about fix the button situation.

3.) Scott Mitchell’s fear of “heights’: This is one of the most frustrating things that I think ANYONE who has played “Bunkers” knows all to well. Scott Mitchell is afraid of heights… He is so afraid that it is impossible for him to even jump/fall off of ledges in excess of 2-3’. Sad. I’m sorry but if you are able to tread fearlessly through gunfire and mortar fire ledges should be your least of worries. You need to be able to fall in this game, as I mentioned earlier not being able to fall off the upper parts in the “Bunkers” map made going on the upper parts suicide if you somehow forgot where you could clamber up and down to. If you need to avoid getting shot and your only option is to fall and potentially hurt your self in the process you should be able to. There is no reason to forfeit a kill to the opposing team because of this. As a gamer I think it is an insult to have the developers “protect us from ourselves”. If you are stupid enough to jump ten feet+ and not think you are gonna break your leg than you deserve the –1 point.

OFF TOPIC: 4.) There needs to be the ability to re-size maps for smaller groups. This was probably GR2: Summit Strike’s biggest downfall, it took forever to get a server going and the vast majority of the maps were massive! Perfect Dark Zero pulled it off I find it hard to believe GRAW can’t do the same.

5.) Claymores should be tripwire activated, not remote detonated.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dirty_Jackal,

Your a joke go and play COD4

styleish get back in ur hole ur a muppet the guy is right, these are next gen consoles yet were seeing basic stuff still everything aiming in slow motion. motion sensor claymores etc would be a good addition to it just to make it easier to navigate while ur playing stuff like that would be a big improvement from the ice age tech they are using

So basically what you're saying is that you think GRAW and it's successors would be better if it were to be more like CoD4. Yeah, right. The reason people still play GRAW is because it ISN'T like CoD4 or Halo. It's slower and more considered than the psychotic gunfight that those type of games are. Not only that but some people just don't care for versus type games, so a game with a strong co-op component, which ISN'T CoD4, is more suited for them.

quote:

not to mention the inability to jump

Ghost Recon has never had the ability to jump, and we like it like that.

quote:

Originally posted by Stylish89:
Your a joke go and play COD4

If you dont have anything constructive to post please dont

quote:

Originally posted by HarlequinK:
So basically what you're saying is that you think GRAW and it's successors would be better if it were to be more like CoD4. Yeah, right. The reason people still play GRAW is because it ISN'T like CoD4 or Halo. It's slower and more considered than the psychotic gunfight that those type of games are. Not only that but some people just don't care for versus type games, so a game with a strong co-op component, which ISN'T CoD4, is more suited for them.

I think you are missing my point- no way in HELL do I want to see GRAW turn into Halo...ugh [shudders]. But let's face it firefights are psychotic. Thats just how combat is. It's fast and gritty, and success or getting killed is more often then not based upon split-second decisions, not fiddling with buttons and toggling menus. This is where RS:V and CoD4 excel. Button layouts feel more in tune with the hands and there are essentially NO menus to fiddle with. If I need to throw a grenade because their team was stupid enough to move in a tight corner as a group I can. I can't do that in GRAW, by the time I get the grenades out and thrown the enemy most likely have split up. 1.) Speed. GRAW's firing feels unrealistic and erratic, even with precision aiming. Aiming in RS:V and CoD4 seem more like I have control of the actual firearm, it feels like what I am looking at on the screen is an extension almost of myself. Firing feels accurate and controlled... 2.) Accuracy Lastly GRAW lacks fluid movement. Everything feels clunky and slow, like you're constantly walking in swamp or uphill, regardless of what terrain you are on. It feels like I'm playing a simulator, not controlling an "elite recon" soldier. Moving just feels like it is lacking the final aspect of combat... 3.) Violence of action.

To answer XxCH0NGxX. I don't think jump is necessary in GRAW, but you NEED to be able to fall off of everything, regardless of height. If you are being shot at and the only way to prevent getting killed is to fall off an a ledge and have your health meter possibly go "yellow" then I'm sorry but you should be able to. It is an insult to say that you can't do something as simple as falling in a game based on being "Advanced".

quote:

Originally posted by Dirty_Jackal:
To answer XxCH0NGxX. I don't think jump is necessary in GRAW, but you NEED to be able to fall off of everything, regardless of height. If you are being shot at and the only way to prevent getting killed is to fall off an a ledge and have your health meter possibly go "yellow" then I'm sorry but you should be able to. It is an insult to say that you can't do something as simple as falling in a game based on being "Advanced".

Exactly. I don't mind if there is no jump ability so much as not having the ability to fall off an object or building that is more than 2 or 3 feet high. I also cannot stand the fact Ubi/RSE took out the ability to open doors and enter buildings. That is what made the OGR so damn good. You had to make your way tactically through a building to complete objectives. It was very realistic. The realism that "we" (the hardcore GR fans) fell in love with in OGR and IT has been thrown out the window in order to satisfy the "halo" run and gun crowd, all for money. The devs are more than happy to sell more quantity of games, and not care whether the replay value is worth a cr@p, instead of selling a higher quality game, with a higher replay value.

I realize the industry is focusing more and more on making a quick buck, but the audience that has gotten the franchise to where it is has been completely ignored in terms of gameplay in at least the last two releases, and really going back to GR2's redaction of controlling all soldiers on up to two teams, playing indoors, as well as the introduction of OTS.

The reason so many people have left GRAW for COD is that, although chaotic, the controls are much more organized and responsive, which helps give it an extremely high replay value. Also, your fellow soldiers in the COD campaign actually can and will take out enemies all the time.

I hate to admit it, but I play COD almost exclusively now because of the controls and the forced FPV (which alone makes it more realistic than GRAW). I had no intention of buying COD at all, but received it as a Christmas gift. I tried to go back to GRAW the other day and played for about 5 minutes because the controls are way too slow and unresponsive. I couldn't take it. Yeah, I know COD is chaos, but I don't have to fiddle-fart around in menus just to access my equipment. All I have to do is press a button or the D-pad one time to access an item, and there is basically no wait to use it. Sure, your guy has to pull it out of a pouch, or off his back, but it doesn't take all day like it does in GRAW (during which time you lose any advantage you may have had before making the decision to choose the item).

If the devs actually do read these posts, PLEASE BRING THE TACTICAL GAMEPLAY OF THE OGR BACK!!! Let us open doors and play inside again. Let us upgrade our soldiers' abilities, or at least let us unlock specialists like the badass Ibrahim sniper from the OGR. Let us switch between all the soldiers we have and control them. Give us back AI Ghosts that can actually shoot enemies (in OGR you could go through a level and hardly shoot because your buddies would pick guys off the whole time if left on Assault ROE). And, if you really listen to your core audience, bring back FPV only (enough of the "God-mode corner glitching", "boogeyman jumping out to get you" BS already). Unless these features become part of the game again, there will be no more GR for me. Tom Clancy would not stand for the b@stardization of his creation like this. The story is about special forces. Get back to the basic features that made the franchise what it is, or sell the franchise to a company that will.

Please make the series worth coming back to. I have bought every GR, except for GR2:SS, and I still sit down and play the OGR from time to time on my own (no one is ever playing it on Live anymore). But, I can assure Ubi that I will not fork any money over for GR until the game gets back to basics (only free DLC for me now until I feel the community is actually paid attention to, especially after the last DLC fiasco).

Without possessing the fundamentals, you cannot win in any game. It is especially true in sports and it is true in everything else in life.

quote:

So basically what you're saying is that you think GRAW and it's successors would be better if it were to be more like CoD4. Yeah, right. The reason people still play GRAW is because it ISN'T like CoD4 or Halo. It's slower and more considered than the psychotic gunfight that those type of games are. Not only that but some people just don't care for versus type games, so a game with a strong co-op component, which ISN'T CoD4, is more suited for them.

Exzaclty Its SO UNREALISTIC and thats why kids play it.
Do you really think you could sprint around in a warzone with 10stone of equipment on your back?
And as for jumping,Come on be serious This is war, u can clamber and trust me thats all ud be able to do in real war
Thats was constructive ms-kleaneasy,go and play COD4,because he/she blatently cant handle GRAW2.I duno why people wanna even try to compare.Its seperates the boys from the men literally!

You guys kill me with the whole "forced first person view" ****. FPS is no more realistic than third person is! FPS simulates tunnel vision which will get you killed quick in a real firefight. I understand that third person lets you look around corners but at least you get a sense of peripheral vision. Forcing first person view is a mistake. Give it as an option is better. Play the way you like. Are you going to say Gears of War is a bad game because it's third person? You'll get laughed off any message board if you do.

I think a compromise would be to leave the game in third person but remove control of which shoulder the view is, then change it during gameplay based on the situation. If you cover to a corner your shoulder view is over the shoulder opposite the corner, then switches shoulders when you lean out. This will prevent you from seeing directly around the corner until you expose yourself, yet maintain your sense of peripheral vision. Done right this should solve many of the problems people talk about, but not everyone will be happy no matter what. I don't mind it the way it is.

There is NOTHING realistic about CoD4's gameplay other than the equipment used. Firefights don't happen like that. They are much more slow and considered, with groups of soldiers covering each other as they move from cover to cover, sort of like GRAW. If armies fought the way CoD4 battles are fought all the soldiers in the world would already be dead. Tunnel vision gets you flanked and killed, which happens in CoD4 (and other first person games) all the time. Who the hell drops a live grenade when they're killed? CoD4 might be fun but it barely resembles realism, which is what GRAW players are looking for. It might not be totally realistic, but it's a hell of a lot closer than CoD4 or any other run and gun type game.

I will admit that I wish the controls were a bit more responsive, but remember that every other player in the game is dealing with the same issue. I'll never understand why it takes the same amount of time to reload as it does to draw a pistol, which is unrealistic and is something the CoD4 did do right. As far as movement and shooting goes, I have no problems moving or getting hits with either precise aiming or scoping.

quote:

Originally posted by HarlequinK:
So basically what you're saying is that you think GRAW and it's successors would be better if it were to be more like CoD4. Yeah, right. The reason people still play GRAW is because it ISN'T like CoD4 or Halo. It's slower and more considered than the psychotic gunfight that those type of games are. Not only that but some people just don't care for versus type games, so a game with a strong co-op component, which ISN'T CoD4, is more suited for them.

Thats the thing nobody is playing the game anymore because the game is the same as the first graw. its time for a change we have has the same newb friendly game now for around 2 years now. they need to get back to there roots.

quote:

There is NOTHING realistic about CoD4's gameplay other than the equipment used. Firefights don't happen like that. They are much more slow and considered, with groups of soldiers covering each other as they move from cover to cover, sort of like GRAW. If armies fought the way CoD4 battles are fought all the soldiers in the world would already be dead. Tunnel vision gets you flanked and killed, which happens in CoD4 (and other first person games) all the time. Who the hell drops a live grenade when they're killed? CoD4 might be fun but it barely resembles realism, which is what GRAW players are looking for. It might not be totally realistic, but it's a hell of a lot closer than CoD4 or any other run and gun type game.

Spot on

ur on about tunnel vision. but what about 3rd?
ur comment on the game should be realistic.
but in a REAL war when you you have a camera hovering over your shoulder.
look i aint argueing about 1st n 3rd person because ill play in either view. happly to play both.

what im saying is gameplay is better on CoD because there is so much more you can do on it.
were as on GRAW all you can do it fire your gun.

I love the lean feature and use it a lot. I miss it in games that don't have it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fugu:
because there is so much more you can do on it.
were as on GRAW all you can do it fire your gun.

No offense but if you really believe that, then you probably played GRAW simply the wrong way.

FPV: "Tunnel vision" means that people can sneak up on you from an extra 20 degrees or so angle to either side of the direction you're facing.

TPV: "X-ray vision" means that people can see you through walls and other obstacles.

While "tunnel vision" is not ideal, the only real effect is that you have to look around to the sides a little more often than you normally would. X-ray vision on the other hand completely changes the way the game is played and that tactics that are used. And I would argue that it changes them in a very bad way, making realistic tactics like suppressive fire much less useful.

I think its funny that so many of you are so eager to rag on CoD4 that all you have done is totally miss my points completely. I'm not saying that GRAW needs to become CoD4, I'm saying that a vast majority of GRAW's so-called "Advanced Warfighting" is not that great. There are so many problems and kinks that could be worked out and bring the game to a greater sense of realism. I'm glad someone brought up the realistic factor of first person, face it, while there may be the presence of "tunnel vision" first person is more realistic than 3rd. Period. I think its funny how you people both rag on the fact that CoD4 is so unrealistic in its gameplay and yet if anyone says anything negative about the 3rd person and they are a "noob", "idiot", ad nauseum. Granted, while CoD4 does not have the same calculated situations like GRAW does it is now by far "the most intense" and popular shooter on Live (although this will die down when RS:V2 arrives I'm sure). I'm open-minded and have listened to both sides of the argument but it still doesn't disguise the fact that GRAW is seriously lacking in both realism and in gameplay, and until UBI/RSE gets their ***es in gear, I will no longer buy another Ghost Recon title, not because I'm a wh*re for CoD4 but because I know GRAW2 could have been improved immensely better than the first GRAW and it wasn't.

quote:

Originally posted by MeanMF:
FPV: "Tunnel vision" means that people can sneak up on you from an extra 20 degrees or so angle to either side of the direction you're facing.

TPV: "X-ray vision" means that people can see you through walls and other obstacles.

While "tunnel vision" is not ideal, the only real effect is that you have to look around to the sides a little more often than you normally would. X-ray vision on the other hand completely changes the way the game is played and that tactics that are used. And I would argue that it changes them in a very bad way, making realistic tactics like suppressive fire much less useful.