quote:

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
Simple, walk up to a wall and see if you can see around it.

Okay, i've just done that. I walked up to the corner of a wall and poped my head around exactley like i described in my post, and would you believe it - i could see around the corner.

You obviously misunderstud what i said but that doesn't matter because my post was ment for the developers and not the forum community, so i didn't intend to argue with anyone about my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by xBLACK_JACKx:

quote:

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
Simple, walk up to a wall and see if you can see around it.

Okay, i've just done that. I walked up to the corner of a wall and poped my head around exactley like i described in my post, and would you believe it - i could see around the corner.

You obviously misunderstud what i said but that doesn't matter because my post was ment for the developers and not the forum community, so i didn't intend to argue with anyone about my opinion.

Can you see the back of your head without using a mirror?

I guess you never played Ghost Recon. It was completely 1st person view. No third person view unless you died.

On another note, even today, people are still in awe over the enemy AI and how they reacted to what a player did. Was the AI in GR so far advanced that no one else is able to replicate it? Strange that a large multimillion dollar company cannot finance similar AI on a "larger" title that what GR supposedly was (and is still played to this date no less).

Apologies for being biased towards the PC version. But with the past titles being so different on each platform, with all sorts of features for 1, and others for the other.

And then we all chucked together in the same Forums to discuss what we want for the next title. Just not right.

While there has been no indication UBI has listened to fan requests since 2004, I'll throw the usual requests out there just so they can't say we didn't ask:

1) Real dedicated server software that can run in a server farm without a graphics card

2) Anti Cheat software (Punkbuster)

3) Map Editor/Mod support on or before release

4) Realistic weapons

5) Realistic stances (prone/lean) without unrealistic 3rd person views

6) Hardcore option if entire game isn't hardcore already (one shot kills possible, no health regen)

7) Equipment chosen affects weight and speed of player as well as ability to resist some damage - there should be many armor choices

8) Matching team uniforms - There shouldn't be a need for any friend/foe indicators (like big unrealistic coins over someone's head) because a team should all be wearing the same camo color/pattern even if they have on different types of armor

9) Minor character customization such as clan arm patch, scanned in face, body/facial differences and other things that don't take away from looking like a real matching military team.

10) Full set of admin options to control kicking/banning/map change as well as configuration settings to make a game more/less realistic and also able to ban certain weapons.

Edit: I need to add some emphasis on having OPTIONS. One hardcore clan may prefer completely using coms and visual queues to tell friend from foe while another may prefer having a radar that shows only where friendly players are. We need choices.

We also need consistancy. You may want to label a game in a server browser as casual, hardcore, or custom. This way, players will know what rules to expect from a casual or hardcore server without having to look at a detailed screen but if that doesn't meet what they want they are free to surf through the custom servers.

with the same argument.... the human eye has almost a range of vision of 180 degress... FPV does not give you a REALISTIC field of view. FPV is almost like looking at the world through ONE EYE...your view is limited. While 3rd person view pushes the camera back and attempts to broaden the range of view.

I like that ubi has the option for BOTH views. IF you want to host and play fpv.. then play fpv ONLY.. if you want to play 3rd person.. then play 3rd.. I don't really understand why people have to be so tyrannical when it comes to videogames? I mean.. right now a system is in place where both parties can be happy. Instead we have people trying to have it ONE way or the other. LETS KEEP BOTH!

and I would like ubi to add a 3rd person view for split-screeners.

PLEASE do NOT implement a coversystem..or auto-regenerating health.

quote:

with the same argument.... the human eye has almost a range of vision of 180 degress... FPV does not give you a REALISTIC field of view. FPV is almost like looking at the world through ONE EYE...your view is limited. While 3rd person view pushes the camera back and attempts to broaden the range of view.

What game with 3rd person view pushes the camera back far enough to increase the field of view substantially? All it does is allow you to magically see around obstacles that you absolutely can't see around in real life.

Here is a Vegas screenshot in TPV:

http://www.xboxer.tv/rsv_ps3_online_previews_01.jpg

Without a wall of monitors or completely distorted fisheye view on a single monitor you won't get close to 180 no matter what they do with the view.

Your argument for TPV is completely invalid. Normally I would agree that choice is good but people that want something as unrealistic as a TPV should be playing the unrealistic games that are already on the market and not confuse people with what to expect from a more realistic shooter.

everyone that defends FPV stresses "the realism" of it... but in real life.. I can see almost 180 degrees.. .in real life i can see my nose, my chest... and if I look down I can see my feet.

to u.. fpv is more realistic..

to me.. tpv is more realistic...

why? becuz.. I don't have to look down to see why and what my character is stuck on.

u put a picture of rsv?.. why not graw/2? tpv... the camera is flippable so u can see 180 degrees. and ur character is centered within the screen.

again.. u prove my point of how tyrannical the fpv camp is...

graw is a tactical 3rd person shooter.. it's like playing a team game of chess. it's not a sim!
it's been a tactical 3rd person for 4 games now!

some games can be fun without being in fpv. maybe we should make chess, checkers, supermario ALL fpv so you can be happy.. becuz what is the point of playing a videogame that is unrealistic?

quote:

Originally posted by Pest_AWC:


..... Normally I would agree that choice is good but people that want something as unrealistic as a TPV should be playing the unrealistic games that are already on the market and not confuse people with what to expect from a more realistic shooter.

So to paraphrase; for this game, choice is good as long people choose the same as you, people with a different opinion aren't allowed to express it in case it "confuses" others?

There are no valid arguments for or against either view, because neither is "more" realistic. It's not realistic to see around objects, but it's not realistic to have limited situational awareness and no neck, shoulder or pelvic rotation. I'll skip the obvious argument that any video game is by definition literally unrealistic, because all of us here probabaly would agree that "realistic" means more or less the same thing in the context of a game.

Neither view promotes more or less realistic game play. If anything, you could argue FPV games tend to reduce down to trigger reaction, e.g CoD, whereas TPV games tend to give people thinking time and are used for stealth play, e.g Splinter Cell. Equally you could point to the original GR and Gears of War to make the counter argument.

There are many parameters such as map design, running speed, wounding, gun mechanics and modelling etc that make a game more "realisitic", but the most important factor is how they all combine to influence the players on the game and the way they play it. Take the original Ghost Recon and keep the view the same, put a ray gun in there and spaceman graphic design and alien enemies and you'll pick up huge amounts of younger players that will change the way the game gets played. Personally I'm hoping that OFPR will be a really good game that keeps me interested until the next GR drops. It will have the same FPV perspective as CoD, but if it gets played the same way I won't like it. I'm hoping it will promote the team work, communication and flanking moves that the third person view in GR currently does for me.

The best feature of the GR series has been the choices. The ability to select first person or third person camera view has been there since the third person was introduced, and after suggestions in these forums you can even see which view is being used in the lobby system.

What more do you want? With the choice of views available the call to get rid of one is just unfairly restrictive. You can play your way, I can play mine. My opinion is that my way is the best compromise that makes the game realistic for me. Your opinion is different, but that's your choice and I respect it, and I'm not going to campaign to have your way of playing stopped. I've been on the game since the original was a demo by the way so I've played both views.

You know what. There is a vocal minority of players that want TPV removed and they pop up on these forums regularly, but you never see the TPV players asking for the removal of anybody else's choice.

quote:

Originally posted by AI.BLUEFOX:
Your opinion is different, but that's your choice and I respect it, and I'm not going to campaign to have your way of playing stopped. I've been on the game since the original was a demo by the way so I've played both views.

You know what. There is a vocal minority of players that want TPV removed and they pop up on these forums regularly, but you never see the TPV players asking for the removal of anybody else's choice.

Here here!!!

quote:

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:

quote:

Originally posted by xBLACK_JACKx:

quote:

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
Simple, walk up to a wall and see if you can see around it.

Okay, i've just done that. I walked up to the corner of a wall and poped my head around exactley like i described in my post, and would you believe it - i could see around the corner.

You obviously misunderstud what i said but that doesn't matter because my post was ment for the developers and not the forum community, so i didn't intend to argue with anyone about my opinion.

Can you see the back of your head without using a mirror?

I guess you never played Ghost Recon. It was completely 1st person view. No third person view unless you died.

On another note, even today, people are still in awe over the enemy AI and how they reacted to what a player did. Was the AI in GR so far advanced that no one else is able to replicate it? Strange that a large multimillion dollar company cannot finance similar AI on a "larger" title that what GR supposedly was (and is still played to this date no less).

I think you should fire up Ghost Recon again chap, you can switch between first and third person on the game and exploit corners, just like you could on the original Rainbow Six with the F1 button. What you're talking about is exploiting of the third person perspective without putting yourself in danger, fair enough however I don't think you've played GRAW on the Xbox 360. In GRAW on the Xbox 360. Because if you had, you would know if you was using third person and went up to the wall face into it, you can't see around the wall, because the camera would close on the character model in so you couldn't cheat so to speak, you had to actually peak around it manually using the peak button. Nothing wrong with third and first person being on the same game as GRAW showed, you had the option for first/third SP and MP, the Host had the option to manually block people from using third person, and force to use first person. I see no reason why they cannot co-exist again.

quote:

Originally posted by felipebaby:

quote:

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:

quote:

Originally posted by xBLACK_JACKx:

quote:

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
Simple, walk up to a wall and see if you can see around it.

Okay, i've just done that. I walked up to the corner of a wall and poped my head around exactley like i described in my post, and would you believe it - i could see around the corner.

You obviously misunderstud what i said but that doesn't matter because my post was ment for the developers and not the forum community, so i didn't intend to argue with anyone about my opinion.

Can you see the back of your head without using a mirror?

I guess you never played Ghost Recon. It was completely 1st person view. No third person view unless you died.

On another note, even today, people are still in awe over the enemy AI and how they reacted to what a player did. Was the AI in GR so far advanced that no one else is able to replicate it? Strange that a large multimillion dollar company cannot finance similar AI on a "larger" title that what GR supposedly was (and is still played to this date no less).

I think you should fire up Ghost Recon again chap, you can switch between first and third person on the game and exploit corners, just like you could on the original Rainbow Six with the F1 button. What you're talking about is exploiting of the third person perspective without putting yourself in danger, fair enough however I don't think you've played GRAW on the Xbox 360. In GRAW on the Xbox 360. Because if you had, you would know if you was using third person and went up to the wall face into it, you can't see around the wall, because the camera would close on the character model in so you couldn't cheat so to speak, you had to actually peak around it manually using the peak button. Nothing wrong with third and first person being on the same game as GRAW showed, you had the option for first/third SP and MP, the Host had the option to manually block people from using third person, and force to use first person. I see no reason why they cannot co-exist again.

Sure, you could use F1 in SP and play the game as a commander and not as a Ghost, but you could not see the back of your head ala GR2 and GRAW. In MP, unless you used a cheat, you could not use F1 period.

well UBI did lisgen to us. They took the trash out of Ghost recon (advanced warfighter)

take ghost recon for what it really is, a multiplayer game... If the story line is good, I might finish the story, but the idea of having realistic tools that put me in the game and alow me to challenge myself against another human being is what makes it such a good game.
to hide behind a barrel and actually see myself sticking out a little makes all the diffirence in the world when I get killed because I know it was my fault and I have the option and skill to place myself in better cover as apposed to getting killed by the barrel and assuming that it's not that great of cover just because I got shot there. Ghost Recon has that feel to it that I'm not looking and controling a soilder hiding behind sand bags shooting at someone, but it's me looking over the sandbag shooting at someone.

beating a dead horse but I want to make sure that we keep that aspect more than anything else.

1) Standalone Dedicated Server files
2) Standalone Dedicated Server files
3) Standalone Dedicated Server files
4) Proper PC control scheme on PC. I have a mouse and keyboard and enough keys for lean buttons so don't limit me to a joypad designed control scheme.
5) Standalone Dedicated Server files
6) Ditch the current Clancyverse storyline. It's stupid.
7) If the plot at any point resembles a Steven Seagal movie you're probably doing it wrong. No suitcase nukes.
8) Semi-convincing armory. I don't mind some near-future stuff like the FN SCAR but you don't have to include loads of wacky prototype stuff.
9) Standalone Dedicated Server files
10) Listen to the forking community. Y'know for a change.
11) Give us missions that don't feel totally inappropriate for a unit with "recon" in the name.
edit - interesting question - if you want to make games about straightforward assaulting stuff why not actually do that? You could base it around air assault or the rangers or something.
12) Make a big poster that says "Tension" and put it up on every wall.
13) Standalone Dedicated Server files
14) If you have to make it like TV go for Generation Kill or documentaries instead of 24, The Unit or Transformers.
15) I forgot to mention - Standalone Dedicated Server files.