I recently finished 'SR Serpent Alley'(Edit: Serpent Alley) and was hoping for some critique from the Map Making Community.

The idea for the map is based on the theory of Tic-Tac-Toe. I wanted to create a grid-like map where controlling one area both leads and limits the battle. I toyed with how to balance each of the 5 main areas against each other and spent a considerable amount of time planning how to keep the meter in the Green while putting together something that can be Noob Friendly and challenging for the Veterans.

Something that I disliked about the maps I was playing before was the lack of vertical movement. The maps I was playing were very flat, simple, and uninteresting which drove my need to create something that forces the player to look up. I wanted each area to be uniquely different from the next which I hoped would entice those that like to explore to look around but allow landmarks to make the path less confusing. I think of the map being like a spider web of forts connected to one another through bridges and paths where the players can choose to hold and protect or advance.

The architectural style was influenced by an area near my home called Santana Row where city buildings and parks mesh together in an outdoor market/mall to create a very unique landscape. Although I tend to gravitate toward close quarter encounters, I believe I pushed the envelope by finding ways to make the map useful for all the classes in any given game mode. There are the towers and roof tops for the Snipers, alleys for the Guerillas, open areas for the Commandos, and hidden passages and corridors for the Saboteurs.

Download and enjoy! Invite me to a match for a tour or some advance tactic tips. Most importantly, please let me know what you think are my strengths and weaknesses. I am dying to get back to the editor and improve my next map.

Ah, the pictures…

The Layout


The Likeness

This message has been edited. Last edited by: neokinesis,

Well sounds pretty sweet but I'm no PC

Those pictures sure do look detailed.

I downloaded this and a few of your other maps last night, neo. I'll host some of them this weekend. They look good though, and the layouts seem to be very solid. I'll send you a FR.

now that's a cool looking overview

quote:

Originally posted by Gunner_576:
Well sounds pretty sweet but I'm no PC

This is a Xbox360 Map that I would eventually like to be considered for Ranked Play. My computer, although fast, is strictly for art and e-mail.

quote:

Originally posted by Fauch_:
now that's a cool looking overview

Thank you! My inner artist shining through I suppose. Composition and layout with digital medias are kind of my thing.

This is an excellent map, neo! Very well thought-out layout, and the detailing is damn good throughout. I'm looking forward to running this one soon, as well as your "neverhood" map.

how come it is the same map as santana row? (or at least it looked like)

quote:

Originally posted by CrazyUncleDave:
This is an excellent map, neo! Very well thought-out layout, and the detailing is damn good throughout. I'm looking forward to running this one soon, as well as your "neverhood" map.

Thank you so much for the compliment! It is nice to see that someone out there is listening. A pat on the back always feels great. You know? I haven’t gotten much feedback beyond ‘it was good’ which is sometimes not very helpful. My goal is to make better maps and I have set my feelings aside for even the harsh truths. I’d really like to hear what parts you did and didn’t respond well too.

It’s rewarding to know you found another gem in my Map Contributions. I had mixed feelings about Neverhood because it was my first map. I decided to start small to prevent catastrophe but still love it’s Tiny Town meets Adobe Architectural feel. I spent a lot of time toying with the shadows on that level to lead the player. It’s subtle but the alleys have a rhythm to them visually that points toward the enemies base. Since it uses a very limited brush set by being all Dogon I needed to create focal points for the player so there weren’t too many areas where you turn a corner and feel lost. I tried to do this mostly through texture and shadow. It is a technique I learned in Art School that is used in advance Illustration to separate background and foreground elements.

Neverhood was originally designed when the 20 second spawn time was in affect and there was a balancing issue when the other team would storm the opposing territory. Since the update and 10 or 5 second responds the level plays like it was originally intended, favoring the defender. It is a great level for early matches in a rotation because it accommodates smaller groups and forces the team to band together. Teamwork! It was only a happy accident that it plays awesome tactically and smoothly with a full room.

I would like to shift the attention back to SR Serpent Alley. In the near future I will create a post/thread for Neverhood.

Keep the critiques coming!

The map looks great, fits nicely.
I did find a way to get outside the map, by breaking the window in a church with an MG setup.
Can't say much more about it yet, but i'll host it tonight to see it in action.

quote:

Originally posted by Fauch_:
how come it is the same map as santana row? (or at least it looked like)

Ah, very good observation! SR Serpent Alley stands for Santana Row Serpent Alley. Santana Row was the original map but had a couple of major balancing issues as well as some areas where the player could leave the map. Most/All of those issues have been fixed. (fingers crossed) Serpent Alley (the location) is a quick route behind the APR Base that is unlockable by exploding a barrier with a couple grenades. The item respawn will continue to close the entrance so it only gives either team a short window of time to plan a flanking counter attack but isn’t permanent. It has also been placed outside the Playable Territory so that Players will not camp inside the tunnel. Get in, go through quickly, and get out or you will die.

Another update made was a sniper tower named the Red Tower that sits over the fountains and is accessible from the rooftops. You can either jump from the Flipped Room to Capture (C) and then to the area near the Red Tower, or you can jump out the Post Office windows. It was a necessary change because the Church Tower for the UFLL side was much too strong and there wasn’t really an area for APR to snipe from. That corner has always had a bush for visual cover that causes a number of surprise gunplay battles to break out. It’s a very dangerous corner that is even scarier now.

There were a lot of Occlusion Blocks added to separate the Scrap Yard from the Alley. There are also some separating the Kiosk and Park from the Pool. Faster gameplay is always a plus!

A trend that I noticed was players trying to use the Ammo in the pool which was previously very difficult to get to. The ammo in the pool is used to clear out the center of the map. If things get rough or people are hiding you can shoot the ammo under the water which usually causes the area to stir with movement. I needed an outside element to bring life to the dead zone that is created in the rare occasion when everyone chooses a Sniper Rifle. I have since moved the Ammos closer to the surface which makes them more accessible but intentionally made it difficult. It was important that the Ammo be used in this level to force the player to make a choice to advance, retreat, or die. I also added a ledge under the water near the base point on the Diamond Pool. If you stand there you can easily get ammo from the water. Another Ammo was added in the Smoke House to help create a central place for ammo instead of having to return to your base to restock. Note that the Ammo in the Smoke House is blocked off in Diamond Mode.

A number of tiny boxes and ramps were created to make some areas more accessible especially for Diamond players. The large window above the Flipped Room roof top on the Post Office is now easier to enter and exit if the player is familiar with the jump crouch technique. The Short Cut near the Pool has also been made more accessible by a ramp that allows the player to Jump Crouch into the window more easily from the outside.

Two rooms got furnished by freeing up points from unnecessary obstacles in the Post Office. There is an interior balcony that overlooks the fountains that had a lot of unnecessary garbage on it. It was removed for performance and accessibility.

All sniper towers have an explosive object in them for balance. If the Missile/Rocket is detonated by destroying the propane tank on its underside the APR territory will burn flushing APR out of hiding. Flamethrowers are extremely useful in this level. They may also set the ground a blaze in the Scrap Yard as well as be used in the Kiosk, Park, Backyard, and Smoke House areas. Fire was a major marketing/selling point for Ubi in creating FarCry2 and I tried to accommodate.

Note: The map is dynamic in that it changes from one mode to the next. Serpent Alley, the Ammo in the Smoke House restaurant, and one of the windows in the Red Tower can not be accessed in Capture the Diamond Modes. They have been blocked off to keep the battle fair. Serpent Alley was created to open up the map for Deathmatch and neighboring modes so that there was more opportunity for killing in the Medium-Large level. Serpent Alley gives an unfair advantage to the teams in Capture the Diamond so I have blocked it off in that mode only.

The question I hear online the most while playing is ‘Why is this room upside down?’. In short, I am an Artist and I am weird. The Flipped Room is the area of the map where one team must continue past the familiar into the opposing team’s territory. They must choose to go over, around, or through (literally). I wanted a place that felt unfamiliar right before leaving the territory. So this symbolic place between the two opposite territories is just that. Like a coin having two sides or the idea of Rags to Riches being opposites but meeting. The map is dramatically different visually on either side of this area.

Because I believe SR Serpent Alley is a superior map to its original Santana Row I have taken Santana Row out of my rotation and will soon remove it from the servers. SR Serpent Alley is the obvious replacement with more detail, more balance, and much better performance. I hope you all enjoy!

I just want to let you know that I downloaded your map today after seeing your post. I must say your artistic drawings of your map had caught my eye and I set off on my quest to download your map. I was ready to bash on it because there was no way in hell that someone would take their time to make a blue print of a map with that much detail. I must admit you have me amazed. I played a round with a couple of buddies of mine, to get the feel of it and to check it out. I am no expert on maps but I was surprised to see it moving fast and not sluggish like other maps I have played. Kudos to you. I learned quickly that getting the ammo out of the pool was a bad idea. L Lets say my opinion about water has changed and I will think twice before venturing out into its depths. Anywho, kind of wished that they had the zip lines in FC2, would make your map a bit more awesome. But sadly they don’t and we are left running around like monkeys that lost their bananas. Oh, but you could have a random car here and there. But I guess they wouldn’t work….*grumbles* stupid pool….

now that is funny. I was looking at santana retro, and... it is the same layout, right?

quote:

Originally posted by TarotTeller:
I learned quickly that getting the ammo out of the pool was a bad idea. L Lets say my opinion about water has changed and I will think twice before venturing out into its depths. Anywho, kind of wished that they had the zip lines in FC2, would make your map a bit more awesome. But sadly they don’t and we are left running around like monkeys that lost their bananas. Oh, but you could have a random car here and there. But I guess they wouldn’t work….*grumbles* stupid pool….

Thank you for the complements. Smoother then other maps you say? That is great news, I always fear that being the host in many of the games I play that I experience less lag then other players so it is refreshing to know that it is running smoothly on other systems. Were you hosting by any chance or was one of your friends? Also I wanted to thank you for being the first post with suggestions on how I might improve the map, or my next one.

It made me laugh that your post got a little random there near the end. Unfortunately, I am limited to the FC2 map building objects and Ziplines wont be an option since they have been removed from this installment entirely. You must be a FC veteran because those existed in older versions. I made a number of maps that I shared with my friends locally that used ziplines in the original FarCrys but never made it online with any of them. I had two maps that I always loved to play and occasionally think about recreating for the FarCry2 community. One was called ‘Blood Run’ and the other ‘Nine Yards’. You know, it is funny that you mention vehicles in the maps because I have one in my silly parody remake, Santana Retro.

quote:

Originally posted by Fauch_:
now that is funny. I was looking at Santana Retro, and... it is the same layout, right?

Ha haa, Santana Row - Santana Retro. Yeah, I had this idea for a map I wanted to make but needed a bit more practice with the Dogon and Rock before I dove in. So I made a Flintstone Era parody map of Santana Row. I dislike the map for a number of reasons, mostly FPS and lag with full rooms. It is unique visually, though. I played the two maps back to back a couple times when I was hosting. The rooms got a kick out of it. They always mentioned areas that were a bit slower on Retro. Its not horrible but frames count when you’re rotating quickly to get the jump on an Auto-Shottie on your tail.

When I made Retro I got really interested in other dimensions of map making. Hidden Easter Eggs and cool physic tricks. I even have loops you can shoot through that activate things on the other side of the map. They weren’t practical at all during an actual game but I needed to get my creative juices flowing again and map making was feeling rather dry. I have a number of these inspiration maps that aren‘t published. I really like making maps that have one of the following themes: Extraterrestrial Landscape, Voodoo, Pirate, Future Sci-Fi. I very rarely publish them but enjoy making the worlds immersive.

Since Retro was an experimental parody map anyhow, I wasn’t taking it too seriously. For example I have hidden skulls around the map that use a color as a back plate. I would challenge people to find all the skulls (green, blue, black, brown, orange, red, yellow). I also put a rock in with a red button on it that I called Magnet Mountain. When you would shoot the button with a weak weapon it would cause all the propane tanks that were laying around it to stand straight up . Shooting through the various loops around the map caused different things to happen, one of which was a boat appearing in pool. Like I said, the things weren’t very practical in gameplay. It was just an exercise to keep me thinking outside the box and restore my creative mojo. One technique I discovered which I really liked was putting a particular plant behind windows and doorways would make them appear to glow green from the other side. Since it reminded me of magic, I pushed myself to make the unordinary happen around the map. I will eventually use those magic green windows in a serious map, they look great at night and there aren’t too many night maps out there…

It is wonderful that people are exploring my other maps but I again feel off topic and would like to push this thread to be more about SR Serpent Alley. Can anyone share a fun experience they had while playing in SR Serpent Alley, or share a technique they use that they find useful in a certain game mode on the map?

Hey buddy,

Is this why you ditched me again? Writing freakin’ novels and making epic maps on your xbox and photoshop? Tsk tsk. You really need a life….and a girl J you know I tease…or do I? J the world will never know..

Okay focus. Your map.

Why serpent alley? I see no reference to snakes or anything deceiving-like in the whole map? Or am I missin’ the whole picture? Interesting way of changing buildings and adding a few things here and there; not to mention your little tunnel. There should be a whole theme to add to your serpent alley name. Like making it more snake like. But I guess I can see the angle you are trying to go for. As far as playable…I highly enjoy it. Man, I remember you showing me your first Santana Row and now its this.

quote:

Originally posted by drskotal:
Is this why you ditched me again? Writing freakin’ novels and making epic maps on your xbox and photoshop? Why serpent alley? I see no reference to snakes or anything deceiving-like in the whole map?

Ah! Only a matter of time before someone I knew showed up around here. Ditching you is a result of addiction, what can I say, I like Map Editors. Ha haa, that sounded horrible… and the ladies? Silly girl, life is about your own being, we are not more or less successful if we have a relationship. I choose to be single, I can think of one girl in particular that is dying to claim me. You should already know, I may spend a good 30 hours a week mapping but make time to my lady friends on the weekends. Let’s keep the thread about Map Making and Critique instead of quick jabbing my personal affairs.

The name SR Serpent Alley sounds cool and prevents the inevitable question, ‘Did you mean Saints Row?’. I meant what I wrote but I adapted the name to be more appealing to the Player Market. Santana Row falsely advertised itself through its name because of the association people had with the rhyme.

Snakes have been the symbol of deceit for as long as I can remember (Adam and Eve). I embraced the name when realizing that using a tunnel behind an object you can walk through feels sneaky. Also, it is rather hidden even though it is in plain sight in front of everyone. I didn’t want anyone thinking there is some back alley for cheaters so I just called it out. It’s labeled on the map. It’s called out in the name. It is out of the playable boundaries so people don’t camp and in it. The tunnel is kind of windy like a snake. For the real hardcore gamers that still don’t like it, I blocked it off in Capture the Diamond.

Yes it has come a long, long way since the beginning. Thank you for noticing.