To be honest it doesnt phase me one way or the other, my maps are basic and aren't exactly the type to get copied so i have nothing to worry about. These guys here however are the ppl who invested time and effort into bringing ppl fun for free and everyone that posted here speaking out against the issue obviously do not want their maps copied. To go against their wishes and change their maps is not a favor ppl are doing its a slap in the face.
You seem to think whats done is done but all it would take is ubi(who must know what its like considering piracy issues) to take a hardline and put a stop to it. Its not like its something they intended from the start or something i'd imagine, they wish to have continue.

i agree. its just wrong which ever way you look at it. i imagine most people would be gutted to learn that their map has been stolen, as a lot of poeple, myself included, didnt even know it was possible. i mean honestly, at least leave the auther signiture alone entirely. i dont see how changing it could be an 'accident'

my map "war torn city" got stolen. but it is the only one. I need more praise
I don't even know if the guy changed something XD, I looked quickly at it, and it looked exactly like what I made.

the worst thing I saw is people stealing a map, not changing anything, but the name.
for example, someone who would republish "jumbo jet mrg" under the name "airbus A380"

actually, I modified one map myself without asking the author (but he knew me). it was on TSFP, thought the map was really cool and wanted to put my own touch in it. I showed him and he liked it.

I've been thinking of modifying a few fc2 maps too and then submit them to their authors but haven't done it yet.

I agree, it sucks. I have had several of mine republished with no changes. Some people have no integrity, the kids I can almost understand but it is really sad when done by so called adults, taking credit for something they did not design and/or build, talk about low/no self asteem. I did get a few of them to delete their versions (mentioned it may tarnish their reputations). It would have beeen nice if UBI would have given the author the option to "lock" their maps like they do for Forza2 paintjobs. My guess is that it is a marketing sceme, some little kid republishes your map and shows his freind who then goes out and buys the game so he can do the same and play with his freinds on HIS map, LOL. They obviously didn't won't fix it, they already got OUR money,

We were asking for a -lock map option from the start, but as usual no one listened.
As far as I know, none of my maps have been stolen or republished. I don't know If I should be happy or sad about that lol.

I have also been in a couple of situations like what Infection pointed out where the host claimed to have created a a map that I knew was created by someone on my friends list.
It wouldn't be so bad if the people would just be honest about republishing it.

Much like this:



I just happend to come across it while browsing the recently added list as I do a couple times a week.

makes me do this:

Um, I don't get what everyone is worked up about. Though I haven't read all the posts, it seems like everyone thinks that republishing a map is stealing. If it were, the option wouldn't be there. That's part of the point of the Map Community--I really like your map, but in my case I probably think the spawns could be better placed. I download it, move the spawns, republish. It lists me as the author, but the original creator is credited as such. Have you all not noticed the "Original Creator" credit? Again, I haven't read all the posts yet, so maybe some addresses why this doesn't seem to count, but its good enough for me. I only edit a map if I basically love it and I'll send a message saying "hey look what I did, what do you think about it" really only in the hope that they'll adopt the changes as their own and I won't have to use up a slot on their map. But even if I didn't, they'd still get credit. What's the problem?

It's not really that much of a problem if they want to make some changes that they may think might be better. The problem is the people that copy maps, and try to make everyone think that they made it without even so much as moving 1 spawn.

About 2 weeks ago I was in this guys room, "who's name i'm not allowed to mention on the forums", and all of the maps he had in rotation had his name on it. The whole time I was thinking wow a lot of these are nice maps. The whole time the guy was talking about how he made each map, and blah blah blah.

Later on while trying to get my own room going I noticed I had doubles of a lot of my maps. I thought that was weird. It turned out that host I was talking about had actualy stolen a lot of maps and was trying to claim them as his own. I tried to find differences between some of them in the editor, but I didn't see any.

Now out of the whole rotation 2 maps were actualy his. I must say I wasn't that impressed with them either. I deleted all the the rip offs and his other maps. I only keep original maps I like regardless of what changes may of been made. "Unless it's by the original author, then i'll redownload the new version".

I don't remember all of the names of the maps he ran but I do remember 2 of them.

Duty Calls
Lost Prospect

Which were both made by Skorpius47. I think I remember one of them being by CrazyUncleDave as well, but I don't remember if it was No Quarter, or Ciriculus Alliance.

im lucky my maps dont get played much and i dout their worth stealing anyway but i do feel sorry for the guys who have their maps stolen and re-edited after they put alot of time into making them. it would be nice if you could lock your maps so people can still download and play your map but they just cant edit and re-puplish them.

Hmm...

9 republishes of Fatalitrees. I had no idea! I'll have to look at them and see if anyone actually made any changes to improve them.

Congrats CrazyUncleDave, you are in the club We will mail you the members only jacket and see you at the next meeting!

On th 360, the map's original author should be easy to track down and say 'hey man, about those spawns...' and see what kind of response you get. If the mapper is a dillrod then maybe they deserve to get their work redone and srolen. The "original author" part does not display prominently, but briefly and does not really give due credit as most players look at the publisher if anything at all. Sure, the watermark is nice but locking the map would have been best. Maybe not stopping people from taking it apart, but simply from republishing it.

There also was a case with one of my maps where a player who I cant mention on the forums copied the exact look of some custom objects, the center of the map, was a direct and obvious ripoff of my stuff. At least the author took the time to build it from scratch, with a few different brushes but still maintaing the exact appearance. It even was named almost the same as my map, in such a way that players who did a map search would see that one at the top of the list.

The map itself was horrible. If played at all, combat would take place on a empty road between the previously mentioned custom objects. While the objects were admittedly well done, the map was unplayable and I still didnt like the ripoff, down to the map's little pic being almost identical. (I saw 2 other maps by the same author, same deal )

So...what was the point of that?

I hope it was practice as I did, but I happened to use 007 Goldeneye maps from N64.

Anyway, asking the author cant hurt. I have tons of maps whose authors I have never seen or can find, that are awesome maps but all also have a fatal flaw that makes it unplayable. Some have 100,000 object count's worth of completely useless brushes, some could be shrunk to make it navigable and into the realm of playable object counts. Some could just use some spawn relocation and thats it. So many maps wow me with what I saw done in them, or look very fun to play or both. I really wanted to make at least 2 of them playable but didnt out of respect for the mapper.

I AM however, thinking about making a thread with screens on a few. It would be a bit of a hassle for my limited free time, but some of it should be seen at least.

DONT STEAL MAPS

quote:

Originally posted by sonadadark1:
Um, I don't get what everyone is worked up about. Though I haven't read all the posts, it seems like everyone thinks that republishing a map is stealing. If it were, the option wouldn't be there. That's part of the point of the Map Community--I really like your map, but in my case I probably think the spawns could be better placed. I download it, move the spawns, republish.

question, who are you to decide that an author's original spawn points arent right? unless you ask them the thought process behind how they placed them (i know alot of authors put alot of thought into spawn placement and its not just a random throw 8-16 spawns where ever the cursor lands)

so as an example you decide you want to move a bunch of APR spawn points to an advantageous position where they can rain down sniper fire from above on a map making it 100% lop sided, why would i, or any other mapper who works hard to make their maps fair want their name on a map like that?

ultimately if you like a map i make but dont like a few spawn points, feel free to build your own map with better spawn points, but dont take something ive put hours into building spend 10 minutes in the editor and then have the balls to put your name on it, thats low class unoriginal uncreative gutless theft of someone else's work.

now im not saying you would do that, thats merely an example based on your reply,

map jackin aint cool kids, it makes you look like a douche bag and a leprechaun will come and punch u in the junk. true story i saw it in an article on the interweb once....

It sounds like some people are actually making an effort to fool others, which is really, really lame. And pretty stupid, because I don't know how it is on XBOX or PC, but its pretty obvious on PS3 who the author and original creator are: if they aren't the same, the person who published the map has edited someone else's map, period. The screen shot a few posts back shows what I'm talking about. I have never heard anyone claiming any map that wasn't their own, or even bragging about their map creations at all, but if I encountered that I would certainly call out the BS and avoid that person's matches in the future.

I have seen and made a few maps where basic pieces like the concrete blocks have been used to create original architecture, which I think deserves a lot of credit. If someone else claimed that as their work that would be really obnoxious. People really deserve credit for that effort and to that end I would rather edit their map, rather than just use their ideas, so that they would appear in the Original Creator credit--I haven't done that yet, but it would seem more honest then just seeing how they did it and doing it in my own maps without them receiving credit at all, though I'm starting to put a "credit camera" in each map so I might use that to acknowledge someone who's map taught me a new technique.

Otherwise most maps I've made or seen would hardly qualify as original creations. Almost every map really looks the way it does because Ubisoft Montreal created the parts and tools they did--its more like we're using Lego or Playmobil blocks than creating things ourselves. If you build a huge Lego castle out of 50 different sets of blocks, you created something, but if you made a slightly different spaceship out of a spaceship set, that's more like play than invention. That's what most maps I have made or seen amount to--and I happen to think I make damn good maps, even if I'm just rearranging Ubisoft's blocks.

I can't agree about a lock feature, or acting like we own these creations. When I make models in AutoCad, I own that; when I make original samples and sequences in music I own that too. But arranging Apple's samples and loops in Garage Band usually doesn't amount to making original music, and as cool as this editor is, its really just a toy; most maps I have seen were never original to begin with.

Regardless of our opinions ultimately all maps are property of Ubisoft. I haven't checked the license, but I'm sure it says that... that's just business. I'll slap down BS a-holes who tell lies and make up stories to inflate their egos every time. Beyond that, I can't get too worked up about who owns what. I'm gearing up to release a very original idea to the Map Community and I'm sure others are going to run with it; I hope my participation in forums and community helps trace that idea back to me, but I'm not counting on it. I'm learning how to use real tools so that I can establish myself as a creative professional. FarCry2 is just a game and the rules of the game say: your maps belong to the community. I say: treat jerks like jerks and beyond that we just have to let it go.

Sorry for the long post, but its a delicate subject worthy of thorough consideration.

if you are searching for maps on the servers, goin thru recently added lists etc it will show you the original creator as well as author signature.


BUT if you just jump into a match all you see is author sig, map name, and game host no original creator, which is how some people will try and say a map is theirs when their mapping skills are probably along the same level as a 5 year old with ADD and a brain injury...

CIB24 I mostly agree with your position in that I think if someone makes a lopsided map they are a-holes period. And it is a shame that more effort wasn't put in by Ubisoft to allow players to access map information mid-match as you describe in your next post.

As for this question, though...

quote:

question, who are you to decide that an author's original spawn points arent right?

...the answer is that I am a member of the Map Community. You don't have to like it, but you didn't build this game, Ubisoft did, and they did so promising this very feature. I think you and I would uphold the same standard of consideration and decency in how we treat other people's maps, so I respect that you have your opinion. But when you make a blanket statement like...

quote:

map jackin aint cool kids

...it kind of sounds like you want to rewrite the rules to your own preference, to which the obvious response is: build your own game.

The one time I moved the spawns around the original author used kind of a guerilla warfare arrangement, while I prefer a battlefront type arrangement. I loved his map that much that I wanted to be able to play a game I would enjoy on it. I did send him a message saying, hey, check this out, this is how I would do it. He never did though, as far as I can tell. Now if he starts logging on complaining that I jacked his map, then he's the one being the douche bag.

Besides all this, why aren't you just disabling match sharing in advanced preferences? Oh wait, you want all the advantages of sharing a map (accumulating play count, players don't have to load from the map server) but want to pick and choose what part of the experience you want? Sorry, its one or the other. That's why I say you just have to deal with the jerks as you would any jerk and allow the people with good attitudes to get the most out of the game they paid for, and that includes editing other people's maps UNLESS they disable map sharing in the first place.

Some of the anti-map sharing posters have been vaguely threatening and in this case it is they who are being douchey. People who decides others shouldn't be able to enjoy the full range of their rights are called thugs or tyrants. Ubisoft had an idea that it would be cool if maps could evolve as people edit them and I agree, it's a cool idea. Yes it means some people will be ****s, but that's what happens when you have freedom. Decent people just need to call them out when they do, but unfortunately some people think they should try to change the rules as they see fit, with disregard for others who are enjoying the full range of options allowed to them in good faith.

Long-story-short: jerks who bull**** about what they made should be faced with empty matches, but nobody should be trying to tell anyone they can't edit someone else map in good faith. If you don't want to share, disable map sharing; if that means your maps can't be ranked, that's just the game. Its a fundamental rule of existence folks, you can't share something and control it too. You lend out your car, it might get crashed; if you can't accept that, don't lend it out.