quote:

Originally posted by stuntmanyako:
Yeah this map does have a FC1 feeling to it. Ah the memories. I miss the temple tool set. Would of come in handy for some of my ideas that never got done. Have you ever thought about remaking some of the FC1 maps? I was always hoping somebody would do that.

Thank you for the kind words. I am glad it reminds you of the original as that was part of my intention. Something I call Iconism, which is a way I express a thing about a map that allows it to stand out.

To answer your other question. Yes I have thought about remaking some maps but it is constantly conflicting with my strict policy to never remake other maps that are not originally mine.

For me, at this point, there are 5 or 6 things I strive for. I need to feel like my levels excel at all of these before I am comfortable releasing them. I also try and view those things objectively to prevent personal biases because I know it is in my nature to really like certain genres but by having a system like this I am able to filter out the rough stuff pretty quickly without rating any one gimick/trait too highly.

Those factors are:
Replay
Flow
Performance
Balance
Craft
Iconism

The one exceptiong might be, if I found another Mapper that was recognized for making decent remakes. Then, I might think about a collaboration with them because there is no other expectation. It isn't really my personal style, though.

quote:

Originally posted by neokinesis:
Those factors are:
Replay
Flow
Performance
Balance
Craft
Iconism

This is a pretty solid system for juding your own creations. It's similar to what I've been using in my head to determine my A-grade maps (Waterworks, Cryerstone) versus my B-grade maps (Arid Ascent). Often times, I'll have a map that fits those catagories, but misses on making a hit with the population. My Lockheed is a perfect example; a lot of time and effort went into balancing and revamping the whole map, but it still fell through the cracks and never made an impact.

I think those 5 factors of yours are good to hold on to, but maybe you can elaborate on them a little more by explaining what each one means in context? I'd like to write them down in a notebook and hold onto it in my FC2 binder I keep around.



As for your map here, I'll have to grab the latest version and get some hosting going. I've been meaning to put one up lately, but I usually feel like a jerk for getting host advantage and has deterred me from following through. I dig the simplistic arena-style layout, and your attention to detail has always been one of my favorites. Even though I'm not a huge fan of major sidewalk usage, I'd still recommend everyone to give it a try in a good old fashioned Team Deathmatch.

In my humble return to Far Cry 2, I am greeted by this fine specimine of a map created by my favourite Map Creator, neokinesis.

This map is everything I could ever ask for. It not only has an interesting setting (created astonishingly with the rarely used Sidewalk objects).

I know neo has made some great maps using some objects and tools we rarely choose to use, and this map shows that, perfectly!

The entire layout of the map is extremely sophisticated, intelligant, and strongly considered for the gameplay aspect. It's completely symmetrical, I believe, which opens up the whole balanced aspect of the game.

The clever tunnel leading to the broken wooden Bridge is a priceless feature for the map. It recommends players to take the flanking higher routes (which are also very cleverly placed for flanking possiblities), due to the fact that the bridge is broken. But confident run-and-gun players will just leap over this gap and continue their run!


The map can be used for long range activity, with an AR-16 or a Sniper, but the hanging Vines and Palm Trees make it alot more difficult for the player, which can force them to quit camping, and explore the fine depths of the map, with a closer ranged weapon.


If you're a sneaky player, who loves stealth, flanking (specifically), and cheeky routes to get behind enemy lines - this map is strongly considered for you.


Neo has produced some fine maps in his time, but this map proves to be one of the most different, and best map he's done!

Perhaps jumping out of his comfort zone (larger, wider maps), and entering a new world of smaller, CQB-type maps has helped him clearly develop as a mapper, and also appears to have sparked several new ideas in his head.

As professional as this sounds (I hope!), I want to take a second to say:

Neo, this map is god damn, freakin' sweet! I love it! I really do! Thanks for messaging me about the release, and I'm glad to check it out. It looks really promising, and I know the gameplay will be pretty damn amazing too.

I have one falter to point out. It's a bit picky, but that's what I'm for.

On the right hand side of the map, where the giant doors are - and one is open...

There is a Deathmatch spawn point there too. It basically leads to nothing, but a blocked tunnel. To the bottom left of those rocks and rubble, you can see out of the map through a gap. Thought I'd raise your attention to it.

Maybe you can throw a rock and a skull in there, with a little 635?


Amazing map, your recent maps have been very similar, but this one is completely new and different. And I really like it. It's paid off.

Great work, 5/5*

quote:

Originally posted by Skorpius47:
I think those 5 factors of yours are good to hold on to, but maybe you can elaborate on them a little more by explaining what each one means in context? I'd like to write them down in a notebook and hold onto it in my FC2 binder I keep around.

No problem man. If you want me to be even more specific, just let me know. Through practice I am noticing trends in ways to exaggerate some if not all of these qualities.

Replay – something about a map that makes the majority of times it is played a different experience that is both inviting and/or fun. Often tied closely to the players’ perception of the maps flow and balance.

Flow – invisible lines that connect points of interest by subconsciously guiding the player through the map, showing them through their own instinct, when to stop or run, which over and what under, or left or right turn to take. Often triggered in the player through an emotional response or muscle memory.

Performance – the maps ability to perform adequately for the type of game play exercised (not intended but actually practiced) in the maps different areas. More simply put, no obvious deviation in screen tearing or frames per second that might hinder predictable movement and control for the player.

Balance – the quality about a map that allows the players on each side to recognize their purpose in the world immediately and use the tools given to them to have a dynamic but fair match, versus, the actual layout of the map. In it’s simplest form, symmetry.

Craft – the skill and care put forward by the maker to create a believable veil that covers the eyes of those it hosts too. This usually includes a level of interactivity that players must have to put forward when reacting to or believing in the environment.

Iconism – the thing easiest to describe a map using one sentence or even one word. Often genre but occasionally object, statue, or location influenced. More simply, the thing about a map that allows it to stand out. Often how a maps screen shot embodies the idea of the map.

quote:

Originally posted by ell635:
Neo has produced some fine maps in his time, but this map proves to be one of the most different, and best map he's done!

Perhaps jumping out of his comfort zone (larger, wider maps), and entering a new world of smaller, CQB-type maps has helped him clearly develop as a mapper, and also appears to have sparked several new ideas in his head.

Your kind words bring an endless motivation to me in returning to the editor time and time again to continue to try and bring out new, old, or even revamped but improved ideas.

quote:

Originally posted by ell635:
There is a Deathmatch spawn point there too. It basically leads to nothing, but a blocked tunnel. To the bottom left of those rocks and rubble, you can see out of the map through a gap. Thought I'd raise your attention to it.

I am aware the player can see through the rubble. It was important in making that tunnel that it feel like there be an unreachable area beyond it. Perhaps it needs to be less inviting. If I re-release I will be sure to try and find something better for that area.

quote:

Originally posted by ell635:
Amazing map, your recent maps have been very similar, but this one is completely new and different. And I really like it. It's paid off.

Great work, 5/5*

I have made a shift to trying to create maps for a Ranked Market which has made balance more of a focus. I am glad you like what you see and you can expect more maps from me, like this one and like my older stuff.

This is also the first map that does not include my name hidden in the level, nor does it have any hidden skulls. We can talk later...

quote:

Originally posted by neokinesis:
I have made a shift to trying to create maps for a Ranked Market which has made balance more of a focus.

This is why you're ****ing badass. You're growing as a map maker, shifting your gears and trying new things to reach an alternative goal. You are the man, Neo, and your input in my own projects means a lot to me. Hopefully, we'll have some corresponding free time so we can game on your map soon.

After going through the map, I could really feel that "This deserves to be on the Approved Ranked List!" feeling that I got with Oil Arsenic!

If this doesn't get on the Approved Rank List eventually, I will be in complete despair! This map, and Oil Arsenic, even Floodgate Projects, are worthy of Ranked Approval.

These maps would actually add such a beautiful, and creative new aspect to the Ranked Matches. It would make me want to play Ranked Matches more often!


I mean, sure Renavista was quite cool, but it's hardly perfect! They were all like that. The one with the Tall Trees... they were all great maps, and great ideas. And yeah, the spawning does work pretty well, along with the gameplay.


But in Renavista (I think), there's this horribly created tiny mound of dirt from the terrain, and it's just so sharp and pointed. It needed some Smooth brush over it. And there were plenty of other cases like that.

Your maps are near enough perfect! If you could spot a mistake, I'd wanna see it!!

And the gameplay is all great too.


I hope that Ubisoft honestly pull their fingers out, and they decide to actually check the fine maps that we've had flying around recently. I'm sure they wont find any reason to not add yours to the list.

quote:

Originally posted by Skorpius47:
This is why you're ****ing badass. You're growing as a map maker, shifting your gears and trying new things to reach an alternative goal. You are the man, Neo, and your input in my own projects means a lot to me. Hopefully, we'll have some corresponding free time so we can game on your map soon.

Your opinion has also always mattered to me because of your vast knowledge of play theory (amoung other things) and your proven ability to produce quality maps. So, it means even more to hear you think I am *stars*. You have been consistently able to communicate to me your thoughts on my maps in a way that has helped me improve them. Thank you for that.

Although I am very ill right now, I have the first three day weekend off I have had in years. My first plan is to throw some ideas out in the editor and would love for you to take a look. I mentioned one to you already, have that Temporal Cluster map I need to eventually get around too, and another idea that I haven’t shared yet.

My second plan is to play some great maps!

quote:

Originally posted by ell635:
If this doesn't get on the Approved Rank List eventually, I will be in complete despair! This map, and Oil Arsenic, even Floodgate Projects, are worthy of Ranked Approval.

I would be honored if that happened. The feedback I get while playing is often positive but you never really know how the Ranked Community feels. If anyone likes my maps, all I can ask for is that they continue playing on them and talking about them. Somehow I have come to believe that with enough exposure, anything is possible. The charisma of a map shouldn’t be a liability but could blind sight observers of its other important qualities. If UBI is still out there, I hope that they can look at all 6 of those qualities I hold dear when critiquing or awarding my maps.

I may be trying to get a match together which I often starts with a number of my maps and then later open up to other makers. You should get some gaming in before you go back to school. Congrats by the way. I am finding that education really is the skeleton key to unlocking success.

quote:

Originally posted by ell635:
Your maps are near enough perfect! If you could spot a mistake, I'd wanna see it!!

Thank you kindly. I don’t believe any map is perfect but it is nice to hear that you feel like you couldn’t ask for much more. This map actually does have a couple ‘mistakes’ one that Fauch mentioned and a couple others that I have struggled to work around. Fortunately they are not major by any means nor do they affect game play.

It is nice to see you appearing on the forums again. Definitely, do not be a stranger.

So I guess this means that i can delete the pre-beta version of this map off of my HDD then huh?
I will DL it as soon as I find my disc.

quote:

Originally posted by zeeEVIL1:
So I guess this means that i can delete the pre-beta version of this map off of my HDD then huh?

It certainly does.

Download and enjoy.

Yeah, I've had a short time away from the Forums, and Far Cry 2 in general.

I needed a break. Sometimes I have an outburst of hatred for Far Cry 2, and these days I just put the game down for a while, and wait for its appeal to return to me.


The appeal has come creeping back, and I'm looking for some Ranked and Player Match action, and I'm feeling like trying to make a map I can be proud of.


At the moment, I'm appreciating your new map, as it's been a while since you've created a map. And I haven't heard much from INF3C71ON really - whether it be Map production, or Messaging.

quote:

Originally posted by ell635:
At the moment, I'm appreciating your new map, as it's been a while since you've created a map. And I haven't heard much from INF3C71ON really - whether it be Map production, or Messaging.

I can't speak for inf3c71on but I do know he is still around. I have seen a number of maps he hopes to eventually release. We are also still talking collaborative maps.

As for me, time in the editor has been mostly looking at others' maps lately. A lot of people have asked for my opinion and I have tried to make a genuine attempt in giving those individuals some honest and helpful feedback that will hopefully produce some more excellent maps.

This is important to me because with my new heavy work schedule I am unable to dedicate all the hours to my own maps. I figure, if i don't have the time to release them in 2 week intervals like i was before, maybe i can guide others that are trying to do the same.

Permission to Pass, had been an idea that i was toying with since i broke the seal on my FarCry2 packaging in March. I have mentioned a couple of times before that there are a number of technically challenging things going on in the map and i needed the practice from maps like [360] O i l A r s e n i c, [360] REVOLVER R3VOLU71ON, and [PS3 & 360] Serpent Alley to feel comfortable enough to get it right.

I am glad you like the my maps and if you would like for me to take a look at something you are working on. I could certainly make time.

quote:

Originally posted by neokinesis:
I am glad you like the my maps and if you would like for me to take a look at something you are working on. I could certainly make time.

That perfectly leads on to my Private Message I sent you. I'm not sure if you've read it yet.

Please check it out, and let me know what you think, and if you want in.

Well, the first time i saw this map from the snapshot i thought to myself this one reminds me of the tomb raider games. Theres some very sneaky spots to be found if you look close enough. I kind of get the feel that i'm actually playing tomb raider when i sly through the disguised parts. A very interesting one is this and should be interesting and fun! to play on the upcoming tournament this saturday.

quote:

A very interesting one is this and should be interesting and fun! to play on the upcoming tournament this saturday.

I think something got lost in translation here but if I am understanding you correctly. You are saying that this map may be used in a tournament this saturday? If so, that is awesome!

from what I know, clans usually don't want to play serious matches on user created maps.

I've been wondering if it's because they doubt about the quality of amateur mappers, or if they fear they'll be **** on a map they don't know and haven't practised for hundreds of hours?