I think this link speaks for itself:

http://dslyecxi.com/botg_infiltration.html

I'll paraphrase something a soldier once said - soldiers jump, slide, wiggle about on the ground and kick guys according to what gets the job done. Unfortunately there's only so many buttons or keys on a console controller / PC keyboard.

So here's a random control issue I pulled out of a hat to talk about: the cover system

Gears of War, Rainbow Six Vegas, and apparently GRAW on consoles use a cover fire mechanic. It lets you see people who in reality you couldn't...unless you pulled out your stick + mirror + chewing gum, that is (or an OICW).

It's great, but these things put the focus on individual heroics, and less on actually thinking about taking down groups of enemies in a careful fashion, or on being slow and methodical. It's the difference between Rainbow Six 3, which had fluid posture (hold a key and move the mouse about to lean or raise/lower posture almost any way you wish), and Vegas.

What do you like? The cover fire mechanic was surprisingly fun in Vegas (especially when holding off tons of enemies in Lone Wolf with a Glock 18c from the side of a box), but do the benefits of getting up closer to cover outweigh the disadvantages?

Modern cover systems like those described are a compromise to incorporate what you can realisticly do/sense in real life that can not be captured by remaining in traditional 1st person views.

I like both systems. It depends on the game mechanic as to which method is best for a particular title.

Yeah, I think it comes down to the control system. Actually, I just realized a Sixaxis or Wii style controller should allow fluid posture, at least roughly. I'd also like to see some kind of mocap technology (but that has problems as well - dslyecxi promotes the Track IR, but it seems you turn your head to the side while attempting to still look directly at the screen, which seems clumsy).

And yeah, both systems are ok, but I guess my point is that the Vegas style cover mechanic really shakes up the gameplay a lot in the direction of speed. Not a bad thing, but will classic Rainbow Six fans want to head over to GRAW on PC?

I actually like the cover system in gears of war, more so than in r6v, feels more real even though it still is not. It doesn't need to be Third Person though, but i.e back to wall peak would be nice.

Good topic.

The game engine would play a large part in this, I believe you decide what you would like to see in a game and then get the engine that does what you want.

A good example of this is here,
http://www.blackfootstudios.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1837&st=20

I believe they have worked hard on this one area to get it just right.

Still have a read see what you think.

Of the 3 games mentioned, I think GRAW 360 has ther most realistic cover system. You have to exposes your head to get a look around a corner. They still let you see a little of whats around the corner but that could be fixed with a camera mod to make it totaly believable.

Can't say anything about the Console since I don't play it nor I have seen people playing it. I honestly like the Vegas cover system, sure it lets you cheat but is fun since this is only a game we're playing.

The GRAW 1 & II cover system is a joke and a half, pop once, oops, nope, not quite on the edge of the wall yet, make noise with the knee while moving a little sideways, ok, try again, pop out once more ever so slowly (this is the game npt what I would like to do), BAM! you're dead... go back to the beginning of the mission and try again.

What would I like then? the Vegas cover system but w/o the out of body experience, let me hug the wall, pop my head quick and go back to cover, if time allows, pop a round or two on tangos that have not seen me first, otherwise, seek another position.

or

Sneak and peak but with faster reaction times, allow me to move (quietly) sideways while I peak, not my whole body but just my head. this is to hard to program you say? see my first option

Sure, the Vegas cover system is not real, not tactical sound, what-e-va, at least is not as cumbersome as the options we have now.