quote:

Originally posted by Blutarski2004:

..... Interesting. I wasn't aware of the Chinese dealings in Afghanistan. As far as claims about US foreign plots to "control the oil supply" are concerned, I find them uproariously hilarious. Exactly what foreign oil sources do we "control"? Did we control OPEC in 1974? Did we control Iran in 1979? Do we control Nicaragua or Venezuela? Canada?, Russia?, UK?, Norway? Borneo? Nigeria?

A good point. I do have to admit that the theory of the Iraq invasion sounds plausible where the U.S. invades, deposes tyrant, the Iraqi citizens welcome and embrace their saviours, the U.S. rebuilds their infrastructure and economy, and in the end....the U.S. businesses would have top choice in dealing with the new and grateful Iraqi nation. Now, it seems that Iraq will be more likely to have business dealings with anyone else but the U.S. Maybe in the past, countries that dealt with the U.S. gave the U.S. a preferred status, but perhaps now with the emerging economies in the world that are flush with cash can take that status away from the U.S.?

As far as I have read, I don't think that any U.S. oil companies were willing to establish business operations in Iraq because of the instability there. I wonder if the Chinese are taking the same risk, or do they know something that the U.S. doesn't. Ie, who are they talking to, and who are they paying off, because the culture of 'bakshish' is the same for China and the Middle East. Even though Americans will pay it, it is done with resentment, whereas you don't get anywhere in the Arab world without it and is considered a natural part of business practice.

quote:

Originally posted by Blutarski2004:


..... Interesting. I wasn't aware of the Chinese dealings in Afghanistan.

Here's one article link to the subject:

U.S. Army’s 10th Mountain Division protecting Chinese copper mine in Afghanistan

The irony is unending.

quote:

Originally posted by Messaschnitzel:

quote:

Originally posted by Blutarski2004:


..... Interesting. I wasn't aware of the Chinese dealings in Afghanistan.

Here's one article link to the subject:

U.S. Army’s 10th Mountain Division protecting Chinese copper mine in Afghanistan

The irony is unending.

.... Too rich!

quote:

Originally posted by Messaschnitzel:

quote:

Originally posted by Blutarski2004:

..... Interesting. I wasn't aware of the Chinese dealings in Afghanistan. As far as claims about US foreign plots to "control the oil supply" are concerned, I find them uproariously hilarious. Exactly what foreign oil sources do we "control"? Did we control OPEC in 1974? Did we control Iran in 1979? Do we control Nicaragua or Venezuela? Canada?, Russia?, UK?, Norway? Borneo? Nigeria?

A good point. I do have to admit that the theory of the Iraq invasion sounds plausible where the U.S. invades, deposes tyrant, the Iraqi citizens welcome and embrace their saviours, the U.S. rebuilds their infrastructure and economy, and in the end....the U.S. businesses would have top choice in dealing with the new and grateful Iraqi nation. Now, it seems that Iraq will be more likely to have business dealings with anyone else but the U.S. Maybe in the past, countries that dealt with the U.S. gave the U.S. a preferred status, but perhaps now with the emerging economies in the world that are flush with cash can take that status away from the U.S.?

As far as I have read, I don't think that any U.S. oil companies were willing to establish business operations in Iraq because of the instability there. I wonder if the Chinese are taking the same risk, or do they know something that the U.S. doesn't. Ie, who are they talking to, and who are they paying off, because the culture of 'bakshish' is the same for China and the Middle East. Even though Americans will pay it, it is done with resentment, whereas you don't get anywhere in the Arab world without it and is considered a natural part of business practice.

..... My experience doing business with the Chinese is that they generally know how to play the game very well indeed.

Messaschnitzel earlier wrote:

quote:

Consider as well that China may seem to be 'passive' at the moment, but like a somewhat quiet river on the surface, the undercurrent could prove to be a problem. They might be supplying money and perhaps arms to the insurgents in Afghanistan in the same way they did in Viet Nam, and the way the U.S. did when the Soviet Union were occupying Afghanistan.

The Chinese 'might' be supplying arms to Afgan insurgents, but I'd suggest that this is highly improbable given the problems the Chinese Govornment has been having with muslem ethnic minority seperatists in western China: see here for a brief article on the subject.

I dare say the Chinese are paying bribes when dealing with countries where it is the norm. I'm sure American companies resent having to do it: some of them would rather bribe their own senators and congressmen, as it is more cost-effective.

Bribery is a world-wide phenomenon, it's just that in some cultures it is not the done thing to admit it.

quote:

Originally posted by AndyJWest:
Messaschnitzel earlier wrote:

quote:

Consider as well that China may seem to be 'passive' at the moment, but like a somewhat quiet river on the surface, the undercurrent could prove to be a problem. They might be supplying money and perhaps arms to the insurgents in Afghanistan in the same way they did in Viet Nam, and the way the U.S. did when the Soviet Union were occupying Afghanistan.

The Chinese 'might' be supplying arms to Afgan insurgents, but I'd suggest that this is highly improbable given the problems the Chinese Govornment has been having with muslem ethnic minority seperatists in western China: see here for a brief article on the subject.

I dare say the Chinese are paying bribes when dealing with countries where it is the norm. I'm sure American companies resent having to do it: some of them would rather bribe their own senators and congressmen, as it is more cost-effective.

Bribery is a world-wide phenomenon, it's just that in some cultures it is not the done thing to admit it.

..... It is actually a federal offence (IIRC) for an American corporation to pay bribes, even to overseas parties.

quote:

Originally posted by AndyJWest:

[QUOTE]The Chinese 'might' be supplying arms to Afgan insurgents, but I'd suggest that this is highly improbable given the problems the Chinese Govornment has been having with muslem ethnic minority seperatists in western China: see here for a brief article on the subject.

You could be absolutely correct. One of my interests is the history of China throughout the ages, and how it applies to the 20th century and into the future. The way they seem to deal with insurgents and uprisings in China today are similar with the way they did in times past, by going after the head(s) of the snake, and then making an obvious example of the remaining culprit body for others to witness. I think that having a growing number of Han mixed with, and living among the minorities would make it more difficult for the insurgents to move about though. Also, there was no clearly led and organized opposition, more like an angry mob than anything else. Mind that this still should be of concern with the government, however. The reason we even see and know about what goes on in China is due to modern communications. Even then, with all of the information that is available, anyone outside of China will never get a complete picture of what is going on. Perhaps the reason that there hasn't been any news about the Uighurs lately could be that the 'rebellion' has been entirely and ruthlessly suppressed, and the news about it has been supressed as well.

quote:

I dare say the Chinese are paying bribes when dealing with countries where it is the norm. I'm sure American companies resent having to do it: some of them would rather bribe their own senators and congressmen, as it is more cost-effective.

You bet! However, here in the U.S. it is frowned upon and can lead to the politician's demise, as one can read in the news. I'll bet that in China, you would not be considered a self respecting and upright politician if you didn't receive bribes for favors. The bigger the bribe, the greater the status!

quote:

Bribery is a world-wide phenomenon, it's just that in some cultures it is not the done thing to admit it.

Yes. On a side note, I remember reading Lee Iacocca's book 'Where Have All the Leaders Gone?', where there is an account of how he was taken aback by a Chinese official's inquiry of what U.S. university was Lee going to send said official's son to if they were to proceed on setting up a car manufacturing facility in China. If I recall correctly, his response was that was not the way business is done in the U.S., and the official's response was that was the way business was done in China.