Why do you believe your "ability" to see what you describe is amazing? Anyone who spends a few minutes can do it.

Of course, you're also the one who claims that when you turn your head sideways the image you see turns sideways as well. That only signifies a broken brain, not an "enlightened" brain.

The term "research" is a stretch of incalculable proportions. You abandon everything you claim because everything you claim is wrong.

--Outlaw.

well the wikipidea clearly describes you cant do this:

binocular rivalry

btw im not the only one who can do this another forumite can do it, curiously he is ambidexter

edit:

all i mean is some can do it others cant, the same some has no wise teeht while others havve extra rows of them

different stages of evolution

edit:

and i didnt abandon the inverted pendulum project

i abandon this for seeing it dangerous

your paintings have nothing to do with binocular rivalry!
you need to present pictures exclusively to the regarding eye involved.

all you do is practicing eye-crossing. no brain-halves, no genes, no ambidextrosity and no evolution.

it is only the ability to supress a self-regulating mechanism of the eyes to get focused to the object of attention.

thats unfair deepo i use the same methods than opticians

in fact the guy who discover binocular rivalry in 1500 did so looking cross eyes to two different books

i have to think farther wether i go on with this or not but i discover something:

there are people who has not binocular rivalry like me and an ambidextrous guy on this forum

here the best way to test it so far:

look at this stereogram(its designed for paralel method)

do you see a stable cross inside the circles?

if you see it as me you have not binocular rivalry

or better said you have it to a less degree:


the current theory is that absolutly everybody has binocular rivalry

this is wrong and could be a prove of farther evolution of man

edit:

this is what happens to normal people according the wiki:

hen one image is presented to one eye and a very different image is presented to the other, instead of the two images being seen superimposed, one image is seen for a few moments, then the other, then the first, and so on, randomly for as long as one cares to look.

i see them perfectly superimposed

edit:

maybe youve seen on tv this:

a group of people is told to count how many passes a group of players do, while they are counting a gorila passes by and people doesnt notice

imo is the same than binocular rivalry, your conscience is on one hemisphere counting and you see the gorila with the other hemisphere, so he is invisible for you

edit:

im discussing this here as well, i put the link for finding 1strs answer very interesting:

http://www.thescienceforum.com....php?p=200596#200596

This message has been edited. Last edited by: raaaid,

I thought the existence of the Jerry Springer Show already proved that we're de-volving.

quote:

Originally posted by raaaid:
this is what happens to normal people according the wiki:

Enough said.

quote:

Originally posted by raaaid:
hen one image is presented to one eye and a very different image is presented to the other, instead of the two images being seen superimposed, one image is seen for a few moments, then the other, then the first, and so on, randomly for as long as one cares to look.

Where in the above does it say that no human being on the planet can possibly see a superimposed image if they spend a few minutes trying to do it?

--Outlaw.

i agree with you there are people who can see superimpose

my point is some can and others cant

raaaid,

you don't present different pictures to the eyes. it is the same picture.

besides, you won't be able to present different pictures to the eyes without seperating the field of view.
then you need different pictures.

from the wikipedia linkk:

The clearest early description of both colour and contour rivalry was made by Dutour (1760, 1763; see translations by O'Shea, 1999a, b). To experience colour rivalry Dutour either crossed his eyes or overdiverged his eyes (a form of free fusion commonly used also at the end of the 20th century to view Magic Eye stereograms)"

so as you can see an stereogram is valid to test binocular rivalry

I'm still not quite sure how I'm supposed to do this... I'm supposed to cross my eyes (which I can't) or do something with reflected light?

best way is reflected light on the screen

this is the same than magic eye stereograms

raaaid,

one more time:
if you present one (1) same image to both eyes, no binocular rivalry occurs!
what happens is the ususal everyday binocular vision.

if the image is very near and fills the visual field nearly, the eyes' percept the one (1) image very different and the dominant eye will be used for cortical projection.
however, there is no rivalry, and no binocular rivalry and no brain-dominance and not any similar.
the effect of seeing crosses in your stereogram is just to avoid to see the image, but concentrate on something else in the background. that way the presented one (1) image won't cause a dominance of one eyes. the effect of superimposed foreground is just that: an effect, as one only tries to ignore it and nevertheless get a clue.

if both eyes get through with their perception, and achieve a projection of their angle, it is called double vision and not good.


now binocular rivalry:
you need two (2) images, different from each other, which are presented to each one eye seperately... no one eye can see what the other eye sees, and both see different images, which are two (2) different images in numbert, for there are two (2) eyes, one for each image, or one image for each eye.
the images used are typically either different in colour or in structure. by that, both eyes rival for projection and the brain doesn't know, which to prefer. the projected pictzure may change for a while, may be superimposed and eventually fade to a change again. this is not to mix up with dominant eye.
if images are used, which are different in motive, it is easier for the brain to memorise one of them, but not stop the rivalry.

a typical series looks like:


for effecting binocular rivalry, you need more or less complicated apparatus. because... you have to present two (2) different pictures to each of the eye, without one eye can see the picture presented to the other!

a very early mirror-construction to seperate the field of view and present two (2) different images to each eye, looks like:



none of the effects have anything to do with brain-hemispheres or special abilities to have.
the dominance of one eye has nothing to do with brain-hemispheres.

the eye-dominance can be trained to circumvent... one has to do for viewing those colourful 3d-compositions. those, who are not able to view the 3d-images or stereograms like yours, are indeed shown to be able of very abstract and nonlingual thinking, but this is not a result fom their optical capabilities. and can't be trained as well.
only a conscious defocussing can be trained. visual perception and interpreting the cortical projection is far more complicated and still not at all related to mental capabilities.

binocular rivalry is not in conscious control. the mechanism might as well happen on the same level as okulomotoric control. people who claim to have found such with themselves are fallen to a tricky feedback of their memory, giving the impression, the memorised image is the one actually seen. psilcybin causes that, btw.


even if you are wrong with adressing properly what you want to show, i guess, i know what you mean.
however, i have no clue, what you want to tell us? what do you conclude of an ability to superimpose? you are aware, that you only achieve superimposing by defocussing, are you? focussing on the same image is only possible in less than a arc-minute, never to such a huge picture.

i would assume, that you aim at a higher capability of mental projection...
binocular rivalry (which you won't be able to preform or observe without adequate parts) depends on the quality of the two (2) different images. in the image above this is represented in content, or direction of lines, or colour. one can try to 'hold' one of the constantly changing of cortical projection longer in the visual memory, which is difficult. once it could be attenuated long enough, it can be called upon. this is an interesting phenomenon of memory, and need a trained way to pay attention. it is similar to some monk-traditions of meditation.

but has nothing to do with biocular rivalry and also not with any other effect in visual perception.

caramba,

i see, you found something about change blindness, inattentual awareness and attentional blink.

again, it has nothing to do as well with what you would see as mental abilities.
those are processes based on the exceptional capacity of the sensory register in visual perception. what makes them interesting is, that they happen exactly before any interpretation of the visual information occurs. it is a short time filter of less than 150-200 ms, assuring, that attention can be directed in conscious to actually give the projection a meaning.

it is a very old postulate in psychology, that conscience is located somewhere. it is a model, simolified to be able to act. it is not at all based on physiological findings and nowadays reduced to a vague 'lingual' consciousness, as to describe the conscious, which can be expressed. even this is dubious, as most won't be able to answer, in which other way one should express oneself.
nevertheless, there are other ways of consciousness, which can be expressed without lingual abilities. just very rare, that someone can tell about it and how it feels. brain-activity research though shows enough evidence of patterns equal to those in the lingual part of hemisphere.

if you read of 'consciousness', 'awareness', 'cognition', it depends much on who is using it. in any way, as soon as it includes mistery, it was used wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by deepo_HP:
'consciousness', 'awareness', 'cognition', it depends much on who is using it. in any way, as soon as it includes mistery, it was used wrong.

Very neatly put!

Yes!
I knew it,i knew that the humans can't see like me!
This is what you,humans,see:

And this is what the Gringo sees:


Ha,beat this!I evolved 10k years ago!