Of course those of us who have studied Manfred from Floyd Gibbons's 1920's THE RED KNIGHT OF GERMANY are not surprised by this book, and, in fact, our only surprise was the silky convenient fantasy sold in the current popular film:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/german...into-film-storm.html

The fact of the matter is that vR was a professional military man through-and-through, and an avid sportsman (he once spent an entire frigid winter night in a tree waiting for a particular sow to appear so he could shoot her dead---he got her). He shot to kill.

this same article was on Deutsche Welle like 3 or 4 weeks ago.

Oh, for the love of Ben Affleck, they made a war movie that is not really historically accurate?

God forbid those Germans have a war hero.

From everything I've heard about what "real combat" is like, a movie that showed how things really are during wartime would be a really, really boring movie...

From what I've heard a typical sortie is 8 hours of boredom with (maybe) 7 to 15 min of shear terror(combat)...and then your back at the base.

Didn't he come from a Prussian family with a military background?

Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.

Fritz

He was a military man of his time.I think the problem with a lot of movies about historical figures and events is they try to look at things in a 'modern' way.

Hi all,

From a political point of view, Germany today IMO does have a problem with recognising German war heroes.

WW2 seems to have clouded their opinions or recognition of their military achievements.

WW2 ended almost 70 years ago!

As a Brit, I don't have a problem at all with Germany recognising their war heroes.

An eye-opener for me was the film 'Das Boot' from 1982 which was a German production.

From what I have seen of the Red Baron film so far it has put a modern 'gloss' on the events of WW1. But all films do this.

WW1 is almost 100 years ago. British and German society was very different to today. The Red Baron was a product of German Prussian society at that time.

Mannock was a Brit RFC fighter pilot in WW1 and achieved at least 61 victories. Some accounts put his victories above 80 as he allowed new pilots to take the credit.

http://www.wwiaviation.com/aces/ace_Edward_Mannock.shtml


I would appreciate a film of Mannock's exploits but it will never happen.


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

well, to be honest, we all have our preconcieved notion of WWI air combat and the men who are famous for fighting it. I doubt the movie would be a success if it told the truth about a well known person like the Red Baron. If it was a less well known character then maybe they could be more honest about what happened.

just don't make another movie like "Flyboys"

how many months did he actually fly the tri-planes ?

wasnt like 90 % + of his time spent in Albatrosses ?

when is the film being released outside Germania?,its been out what now four weeks>?

quote:

Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Didn't he come from a Prussian family with a military background?

Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.

Fritz

Yes. Father was in the German Army in WWI. Low level Prussian nobility.

quote:

Originally posted by Badsight-:
how many months did he actually fly the tri-planes ?

wasnt like 90 % + of his time spent in Albatrosses ?

Under Boelke he entered combat in autumn 1916 with the Albatros D.II, flew the D.III in "Bloody April", and soon after switched to the the D.V in which he received his severe head wound around mid-1917. He and Voss received the first two service test Fokker triplanes. Von R had several triplanes. Albatros Publications has an excellent book with profiles of all of his airplanes and a good biography.

An absolutely brilliant film could have been made about the real Manfred. For one thing, he received a severe head wound in mid-1917 which disabled him for months. Yet he returned to fighting from his powerful sense of duty. He was, unquestionably, a great hero of Germany. The real Manfred was not one of the boys. He definitely was not a pacifist. We know very little about his relationship with a German nurse. As Floyd Gibbons understood in the 1920's, to accurately view Manfred you have to see him as the lifelong sportsman hunter---cautious, dogged, impervious to discomfort---he hunted with absolute dedication and concentration. And, this was how he hunted in the air. He shunned aerobatics, and almost always went for belly shots to kill the crew with brutal efficiency. He saw his job to annihilate the enemies of his nation and he did so unemotionally. He was not a hater like Mannock or others. He was complicated but not accessible. He was not contemporary. He was not PC. He definitely was not Red. A nation can only understand itself through clearly viewing its heros as they were. Not by redressing them for each passing trend. However, 90% of history is just that.

With apologies to Sailor Malan.


My 10 rules of air war film making.

1) The hero must be ahead of his time - e.g involved in a war before his country is or embracing new-fangled aeroplanes and technology (see (10) below).

2) He must have a bestest friend in the whole wide world who he'll fall out with and probably cause the death of (see (5) below), giving cause for guilt-ridden madcap final reel heroics against impossible odds.

3) National stereotypes are to be encouraged amongst the enemies and allies of our hero e.g. effeminate, class riddled English, Cruel teutonic Germans, brash gung-ho Americans, Indifferent, apathetic Frenchmen.

4) Despite use of cutting edge CGI sequences, a real aeroplane that looks nothing like the part it plays will be used in several sequences e.g. Tigermoth as Halberstadt, Harvard as Bf109.

5) It is mandatory for our hero to fall in love with a nurse at at exactly the same time as his bestest friend in the whole wide world (see 2) above) and (9) below), causing friction and tension.

6) Modern language and attitudes are to be used at all times.

7) Never, ever let the historical facts get in the way of the script.

8) Whenever possible use a 50 year actor to portray a 19 year old pilot.

9) As much celluloid as possible is to be used on more economical love interest scenes with nurse to pad movie out (see (5) above).

10) The laws of aerodynamics and gravity do not apply to movie warplanes. Those meddling idiots on internet forums don't pay our wages - gullible uneducated kids in search of cheap thrills and romantic mush that puts their girls in the mood for a grope on the bus home do.