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Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:

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Originally posted by foxyboy1964:

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Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
While it was not me, a coworker had to deal with nationalized health care in The Netherlands. He was sick and had a sore throat, and coughing. The local doctor prescribed him Xanax, a anxiety pill so he could get some sleep. The Dutch pay between 40 and 50% in taxes. Is this really something we need here?

Without wishing to cause offence, I can explain that. It was simply the doctor's way of telling your co-worker to grow a pair. Just because health care in Europe is free at the point of delivery doesn't mean the medics will gladly tolerate time wasters.

Most of us, from time to time, will get sore throats, coughs, headaches, nausea etc. Most of the time these minor ailments will clear up on their own, without treatment. Everybody knows that, yes? The Dutch doctor knew that, and that's why he wasn't overly concerned by your co-workers symptoms. The fact that your co-worker went to see the doctor in the first place suggests he was anxious about it. So the doctor treated his anxiety. Sounds like the doctor did the right thing.

While I simplified my co-workers symptoms, it sounded like he had bronchitis honestly. If you ever had bronchitis (it has put me in the hospital when I was young), you know how bad it can get. Someone going to a doctor does not mean that they are anxious.

I also agree that the way most people take antibiotics, we now have more drug resistant strains and need stronger drugs to get rid of it. Before I left Holland, I was starting to get a sore throat and started getting congested. While I cleared up, thankfully, I was worried that I would get stuck over there until I was well enough to travel and not get the proper stuff for treatment (I seem to get bronchitis once a year lately for some odd reason).

While the Dutch do pay large amount in taxes, it is not all towards health care, but enough of it does. How many people in the US can live on 50-60% of their salary? Those who work at McDonalds couldn't.

Errr, perhaps because those who work at McDonald's don't pay 50 percent in tax? It goes up as you earn more.

I have never been given anything for Bronchitis by a doc over here. Drugs to treat symptoms such as non-steroidal anti-inflammatories are available over the counter.

Correct, that's what pharmacies are for.

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Originally posted by mortoma:
This is not the way to get people who need health care to get it. It's not the government's job to provide care to people or otherwise be their nanny. That isn't what Jefferson, Madison, Paine and the other founders had in mind when they started this country. It lowers the quality of health care, starts rationing and causes you to wait in line for weeks or months if you want to see the doctor. The government needs to keep their noses out.

Well we have certainly seen what happens when they "..get big government off our backs.." we wind up with big business on our necks.. trickle down economics worked real well for the less fortunate masses.. as for what our founding fathers wanted.. I for one am glad that things have changed since the founding of the country... otherwise I'd still be in chains... and seperation of church and sate does not mean the removal of all references to GOD from any public venue...

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Originally posted by Bearcat99:
... and seperation of church and sate does not mean the removal of all references to GOD from any public venue...

It will be if the ACLU has their dreams come true. I'll let you connect the dots on whether the ACLU is more of a left or right leaning group.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...AR2009092803075.html

I'm surprised that no one has seen fit to mention that Hollywood Celebrities, in addition to being shills for Team Obama, are also advocating for the release of Roman Polanski, admitted Child Rapist. It's a shame that so many people equate celebrity with intelligence or good judgement.

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Originally posted by erco415:
I'm surprised that no one has seen fit to mention that Hollywood Celebrities, in addition to being shills for Team Obama, are also advocating for the release of Roman Polanski, admitted Child Rapist. It's a shame that so many people equate celebrity with intelligence or good judgement.

Are you sure that they are the same 'celebrities' in both cases? There are a heck of a lot of them...

Indeed. That's like coming to the conclusion that all Poles are child molesters.

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advocating for the release of Roman Polanski, admitted Child Rapist.

So is the "victim"

I used the generic "Hollywood Celebrities" to emphasize that famous people endorse all sorts of things, and not always wisely. It's beyond obvious that the supporters of each cause may not be the same people.

Bremmer, did you, really, just put quotes around 'victim' to describe a thirteen year old girl who was drugged and raped? Astonishing.

Actually, if she is advocating his release then I think quotes may be in order. I'm sure she knows what happened better than anyone.

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Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
Actually, if she is advocating his release then I think quotes may be in order. I'm sure she knows what happened better than anyone.

Point is, is that had it been Mel Gibson instead of Roman Polanski they'd be bringing the rope and torches themselves.

Look into why she's supporting his release. The media circus surrounding her is, in her own words, worse than what Polanski did to her. The $500,000 settlement, in addition to all parties involved agreeing on what took place, makes the matter of Polanski's guilt beyond question.

Not that it matters, but I doubt that so much sympathy would be shown if the perpetrator was, say, a priest.

The entire problem with the entire Obamacare "plan" is that it falls short of what it is meant to do. Affordable health care for all Americans.

The only thing that will happen is that Doctor visits and Hospital care will continue to raise and the coverage of national health care will not. So like with medicare and medicaid you will need to get a supplemental insurance to cover unpaid expenses. So on top of paying for "Obamacare" you will then get to pay an additional amount to cover the rest. The government messed up Medicare and Medicaid and so it will do with NHC.

Ask anyone on Medicare if they are unhappy with it or if they want to give it up.

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Originally posted by LW_lcarp:
The entire problem with the entire Obamacare "plan" is that it falls short of what it is meant to do. Affordable health care for all Americans.

The only thing that will happen is that Doctor visits and Hospital care will continue to raise and the coverage of national health care will not. So like with medicare and medicaid you will need to get a supplemental insurance to cover unpaid expenses. So on top of paying for "Obamacare" you will then get to pay an additional amount to cover the rest. The government messed up Medicare and Medicaid and so it will do with NHC.

The other problem for many is that it is coming from the Obama administration.. Regardless to content.. because you know the man can do no right.. he is a Muslim terrorist sympathizing weakling, bent on destroying America..

That's why we have to "take back our country"... right...

I wonder how this reform would look if the business end of the health care industry and all their bought and paid for politicians and bribe artists.. (reublican AND democrat) oh.. did I say bribe artists.. I meant lobbyists, were not there to stir the pot and keep opposition to any bill.. (I can't say "the" bill yet because in spite of all the BS you hear on Fux News.. we dont have a bill yet.. )

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Ask anyone on Medicare if they are unhappy with it or if they want to give it up.

Not only that.. we hear all this talk about "I dont want to pay for illegals' health care" and "I dont want the government running my health care.." Well first off we already do pay for them... only it is more because they just go straight to the emergency room.. and .. I'd rather have the government running my health care than some pencil pushing white collar numbers cruncher whose primary concern is the bottom line.. Not my health.


My 2 cents ..