SHGAWI please don’t duplicate post, it makes reading the forums hard work for members and is against the rules

If you need to edit a previous post to add more content use the edit button in the lower right side of your post

My wish is for Driver to Rock, ie not just be a groovy game, but also have a great soundtrack!

Just as my quotes from John Ruskin in my signature state, anything which is a waste of time is not worth doing. And the Driver franchise never has had any value in terms of teaching us more about the truth of life. Very few games have been able to accomplish this, and I am very unhappy with that. Games primarily are nothing but about ignorance, for it is bliss. However, over time, one cannot help but return to reality, so how much ignorance is worthy of being followed? At what cost?

I have studied various philosophies and even some religions in great detail. This has given me a greater reason to not waste so much time with the media or with materialism. I regret so many choices that I have made in my life, which mostly consisted of spending time with the media, and with those things which were not very moral or meaningful at all. For too long I have been materialistic and not very social at all that I will not stand for escaping my main reality.

Reflections will most definitely continue to make games that are only about glorifying evil in many ways, whether it is driving fast, committing violence, or even committing adultery. And for that, I could care less about its games. The truth is, I do not care much at all for the video games industry anymore. Only at rare times, when games that attempt to go beyond entertainment do I actually find an interest in this medium. The same goes for every other medium (i.e. literature, TV, cinema, music, etc.).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FutureVenturer2,

Oh come on, games are primarily for FUN! I mean did you ever play Haze, Ubisoft's socially responsible FPS; now that wasn't much fun! Yes it was in part due to incredibly bad acting, naf storyline and un-skip-able cut-scenes, but the main reason it was so terrible as a game was its ethics were preached at you; and whilst you were in a fictional setting of obvious unfairness, being forced to accept one persons moral code is not correct and left the player feeling no connection with the game.

This is why most games dabble very lightly if at all in ethics, as they don't wish to push their views onto the unsuspecting plebs wiggling two analogue sticks and mashing buttons! If a game were to detail a moral issue, I would hope it would not be the same “violence is bad” line, continually used to degrade games, but instead be a bit more in-depth.

In Drivers case, it could be detailing some of the less tasteful parts of the drug trade, from the users, often forced into downward spirals of prostitution, theft and other organised crime. That would be an interesting game, especially if it offered you the chance to chose; the undercover cop, or the mercenary, playing both sides for chumps! Or even following a slant of the film “Rise of a Foot Soldier” in which a tough man works his way from street violence through various dodgy clubs and schemes, but throughout he maintains a line not to be crossed.

I mean the main reason violent games are so popular is because they offer us the freedom to explore alternate possibilities, fantasies or just vent some anger. Provided that the person playing understands that this is merely pixels on a screen reacting to his input, then it is unlikely that it will do said person any harm. Driver is however one of the better games as it leads you to think outside the box and not just send off hundreds of rounds in to an unsuspecting mass of innocent civilians.

Sure these games could include moral issues, but I would only want them to be included if they are executed correctly, Haze's story made me want to snap the disk in half and go to the shop that sold it to me and make them eat every shard, lets see them duck out of that! So overall; I think that the most important thing for the developers to do is make a game that they like making, and making it for the vast majority of people to enjoy playing it!

I do not like the idea that games need to be nothing but a way to waste one's time or to "escape" reality. To me, that is just pure ignorance. If I want to feel better, I can spend time around humor (laughter is healthy) or I can do some exercise. Even sports sound better to me than playing games for no benefits other than to have fun, and I do not have much of an interest in sports at all.

If anything, one of the ways that society will get out of control is through ignorance--through not caring so much about reality. I am not saying that we should whine like babies or go and kill people from secret societies, which control most of what is going on in our world, but we should value our lives more than anything else. And everything that we do should be to enhance our lives further. Playing games strictly for fun will not cure a disease or stop a person from having SAD, so why should we think about just that one thing?

As Socrates, a great philosopher, once said, "the unexamined life is not worth living." And by ignoring most of reality, we do go against this. Maybe we should care more about the fact that game developers are profiting from us buying their games, or feel happy for them that they are successful thanks to us than care at all for what happens to us?

games are entertainment, I guess if you want deeper meaning, then fine. Driver just doesn't seem like that kind of game with a moral to the story, its an action game. Save "meaning" for film festivals.

By saying that games are only entertainment, you basically point out that most of the games out there would be a waste of time if you looked past all of that entertainment. There are a few titles out there that are actually able to express ideas as intelligently as those seen in movies and literature as well as art. But sadly, most of the games that we have will never be there.

Yes, Driver is really not a game with any morals at all. After all, its influences, Bullitt, Driver, and The French Connection were all not that moral at all. In fact, they glorify driving wrecklessly and other unethical choices.

OK what's wrong with fun; or entertainment as you put it; I want to buy a game for it to be fun to try out strange manoeuvres, push the limits of the rozzers and occasionally have a good time! So why not let kids enjoy their under-active imaginations experience niceties such as these?

I like fun things, don't you?

I hope that they make Handbraking around corners fun again

even if it isn't totally realistic, I just want it to be fun, and the handbrake corners were one of the things that I enjoyed doing in Driver (1).

I also think that they should make a dynamic difficulty setting for the cops, so the better you are at escaping them, the better thay are at keeping up, but if your not so great at getting away, then the difficulty gets turned down a little...

and I think that would help to give Driver IV an advantage over the GTA Series.

but thats just my opinion of course.

anyway, Good luck to the team at Reflections which ever root you take!.

Yea the handbraking more recently doesn't provide nearly as much arse out sliding as the first game. Don't exagerate it too much, but also make it controllable slide, with varying difficulty for different cars.

Remember the Shelby Cobra in D3 Miami? NICE! But sometimes it was too much oversteer. For instance, I want to be able to drift through wide turns, as well as tight turns. The Cobra was more of a tight turn drifter that wouldn't give much drift in the wide turns

quote:

Originally posted by rmd8:
OK what's wrong with fun; or entertainment as you put it; I want to buy a game for it to be fun to try out strange manoeuvres, push the limits of the rozzers and occasionally have a good time! So why not let kids enjoy their under-active imaginations experience niceties such as these?

I like fun things, don't you?

I like doing "fun" things, but it really depends which things you are talking about. For instance, I like it whenever I see a game feature consequences for my own actions, or ones that simply do not glorify evil. Games like GTA are extremely bad examples of my idea of fun because I just don't find mowing down people as being an interesting thing at all. Things like philosophy, science, and history are just some of the things that interest me, especially philosophy because it makes you ask yourself, "what am I living for?" Subjects with deep meanings, beyond the huge crop are what fascinate me. Another very important component of fun is innovation. If a film, game, or book does not offer anything new, why should I explore it? Of course, sometimes innovative works turn out very poorly done, but this doesn't happen very often.

I have played so many different kinds of games in the past that most of the game formulas that are out there today don't appeal to me at all. In a way, I can even say that working on a game that has no violence at all would be far more interesting to me than working on a violent title because most mainstream AAA titles are violent ones. Lots of independent games also offer tons of violent because they are usually focused on just the shooting aspects or any other overused ideas in games.

If I would like to know more about how weapons function and what types of weapons are out there, then I would go ahead and either read a bunch of books on that subject, or I would research it on the internet.

Here's how I would classify what is the most important thing for me in a game:

Story>Gameplay>Controls>Music>Graphics

Story is an area which games have explored little of, due to so many cliches being put out there. This is sad because story can really help change the gameplay and other aspects of a game; it can really change how we think of games, through the use of emotions and philosophical/moral messages. Too many stories are about masculinity, males stereotypes, in that all men like weapons and violence as well as cars and sex. I have looked past the many stereotypes that the media has to offer, and now I could care less about those three things because I am far more open-minded now.

Anyways, I think that I have presented you with enough information on what is considered "fun" to me. Each person has a slightly different opinion of what is fun. You cannot expect all people to think the same way, even when comparing one man to all of the other men, or a woman to every women in society. It just isn't accurate enough to do this.

Good points, I hate it when people's sole highlight of a particular game is its realistic brutality, that does just support the male stereotype. When talking about the latest corpsed generating title from activision, which bases its self on a patronisingly pathetic call of duty, I mentioned I had no interest in ever buying it and they actually winced, like I had offended their gaming cliché. That really got my goat!

If you also winced, sorry but the main thing that horrifies me is not the gore, its the weak pretext that its justifiable due to it being historically accurate, that it allows us to understand the numerous horrors of war. Baulderdash, like its moral to re-enact the traversty over and over again whilst teenagers kill the comrades they would have fought with and the enemies they were fighting against 70 years ago on their consoles, conected togeather by something meant to foster intelligent communication and a common goal!

This is why I think Reflections should focus on making a good game with an inventive storyline and their trademark gameplay to ensure they don't make such a juxtaposition and instead keep the game simple but open to interpretation!

I'm glad that you understand. Maybe I've been a little too pessimistic by saying that Ubisoft Reflections won't succeed in making a much more meaningful Driver game, but I think that it's pretty realistic to not expect many changes from a franchise to come forth.

On the other hand, the Splinter Cell franchise did change to a huge extent with its latest upcoming title, Conviction, so maybe Ubisoft and Reflections will be able to embrace many changes made to the core game mechanics and story. Besides, Mafia 2 looks like it'll be a huge competitor against GTA IV and the upcoming Driver games, with its far more realistic car chases, action, and a darker, more non-linear gangster story. This is why I am so excited about Mafia 2. The first one is regarded by many to be the best crime story ever told in a video game.

Driver would greatly benefit from moving beyond its original intentions, which as D1 points out, is to create the most intense car chases ever. Why not have the term "driver" be pushed to a greater extent? In fact, a game's title shouldn't always be the determination of its concept. If Ubisoft Reflections manages to push the Driver franchise into a much more realistic, emotionally-driven direction, then I certainly would buy that Driver game.

Many games from Ubisoft are of no interest to me at all, maybe the Assassin's Creed games are an except because they focus on secret societies as well as some morals. The Driver franchise is also in my interest, despite the fact that I have not been too happy with it in the past. Also, while Haze didn't do well in delivering a compelling and moral story, I might consider renting the game, just to see what it's like for it to take a different direction in its story. After all, most FPS games center around one super soldier and they have you trying to save the world from some kind of evil force, so you are usually part of the good side. But warfare doesn't really have any good sides; it is all filled with shades of grey morality. And Haze attempted to look at the corruption in corporations and armies as well as other things, but failed miserably. Perhaps if a sequel comes out Ubisoft will be much more careful with it and will deliver a game that the original Haze game was supposed to be, and that is a solid, refreshing, innovative take on FPS games and games in general.

... I just hope the game is fun.

Lets remember we're not making a game about the Dolly Lama, this is Driver, its based on Hollywood action movies, having a moral to the story shoved in your face will ruin the game for everyone, except FV2.

Though I have to agree that killing people in games does make me feel weird, unless of course they're coming after me, then I have no problem. But theres your question of ethics and morals right there.. Or maybe its the answer? If it makes you feel weird, then you already have morals and ethics. If not, then you have more problems than a simple videogame is gonna solve

Yay,fun, a concept that is really hard to invest in a game, good luck Devs!

But yea, I think something that is brutal enough to make you think " @!#? , Drugs, Crime and Gangs are very dangerous, they will mess your life up and chuck you in a ditch with seldom regard to your contribution to such a self-indulgent underworld. "

Something that doesn't preach or make you not do the dodgy stuff but leaves you feeling guilty and more importantly involved in the characters predicaments, that will make it fun, exciting and hopefully satisfy FV2!

quote:

Originally posted by BootsyCollins:
... I just hope the game is fun.

Lets remember we're not making a game about the Dolly Lama, this is Driver, its based on Hollywood action movies, having a moral to the story shoved in your face will ruin the game for everyone, except FV2.

Though I have to agree that killing people in games does make me feel weird, unless of course they're coming after me, then I have no problem. But theres your question of ethics and morals right there.. Or maybe its the answer? If it makes you feel weird, then you already have morals and ethics. If not, then you have more problems than a simple videogame is gonna solve

Are you suggesting that video games never take the route to establish themselves as anything else other than pure entertainment? So, in other words, it seems offensive to you if someone tells you that games should try to be more artistic, like literature and cinema are? I'm not suggesting that every game be changed to follow a more meaningful route. However, I definitely think that it wouldn't hurt at all to present something more in a game than just a sadistic form of escapism.

I don't really see how Driver can continue to be so narrow and vague as an idea, with only promising to offer more and more hollywood car chases. Games are continually growing more and more complex, so I think that a great incentive would be to go with the flow, and create something far more spectacular.

I really am trying to like this franchise, but I can't do it unless it gives me something in return for completing it that is other than just pure entertainment. If I were still a young child, 10 years old or younger, then it wouldn't matter to me at all. But I am almost 19 years old, and am dealing with college, so I don't have all the time in the world to play games just for the sake of fun. When picking a few titles over the many, I need some very compelling and good reason that sets those games apart from the many. And fun is not rational enough as a reason for me to pick any game at all.

Secret island out in the ocean.

Like the thunderbirds island.

Anyone for that?

Why not? It sounds groovy, especially if you could use thunderbird 2 to get there. Planes, we need planes, maybe! If not planes then trains? If they pick a city with an underground then I wanna be able to drive the metro train!

Did anyone try to tram surf on Driv3r, good fun! I woulds like some underground facility, D2 with the mini anyone, ahh! If its next gen, then it must have a charismatic female, itskindov the law. Mirrors edge feel?

Tell you what, give it lots of secrets, wicked cars* and a survival mode (you have a gun, a car and you have to survive (with mates online?) for as long as possible with full felony!).

*By this, a good mixture, ie not all super, uber fast as GRID had mainly fast cars and they were no fun!

I wasn't thinking of the thunderbirds series. Just an island similar to that.

With a hawaiian feel to it. Or just any tropical island feel to it.

I'm notsure if it would have any significance to the main story of the game, or just a feature to walk around on. With this being a feature, it would need interactivity to make it look interesting and secretive too. Certain vehicles or clothing or just scenary.

In DR3 there was a few little isolated very insignificant islands in Miami. They were never involved in the missions. The only thing close enough was the wooden floating warehouses.

Oh, right, that would be nice, ps does Miami have lots of little islands?