quote:

Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:
Okay, I can admit that a mix of arcade-style and open-world gameplay tend to be fine for a game. However, if it's just arcade-styled, there's a chance that it won't innovate its genre any further, leaving the game nothing but simple and with an idea that has very likely already been used, which will make most players choose to stay away from such a title. One of the things that I think are very disappointing include today's many fighting games. They're pure and simple bloodsports, and they have little to no storylines within them. They're always either about tournaments or going after one weapon, through competing against other fighters. Why can't there be more brawler-styled fighting games, which actually tend to be more original, since they have a bigger focus on the storyline than a versus-mode fighting game does. The word "fighter" shouldn't always have a developer think of it as a person who competes for money/fame or even for their deepest desires (the Soul Blade from the Soul Calibur franchise, for instance) when it can also mean someone who is fighting a war, or someone who is battling against foes from level to level. Why can't we have more of something like Shenmue or Jade Empire, for they are great examples of today's fighting game elements being experimented with in other genres (Shenmue is an action-adventure game, whereas Jade Empire is an RPG). Maybe fighting styles should become parts of other genres to innovate the video game industry further. Also, if the arcade-style game and open-world gameplay can clash together, then why can't simulation and open-world gameplay do the same (a GT-styled racing game coupled with open-world gameplay, for example)?

Anyways, you get the point, InsaneDriver06.

Yeah, Gran Turismo should have allowed open world maps a long time ago, since they just keep cranking out the "same game" with new numbers on the end, and a handful of new cars. But they finally added an interior dash view.

Fighting games are all about the fighting, so the story takes a back seat, like the developers first thought, "Let's make a fighting game!" and then, "Should we add a story to it?" Which is why fighting games are not really about great stories for the most part.

Beside the fact that I don't play fighting games because I find them boring (all there is to do is fight), I think how they're made is just fine. Its all about the game. Usually no lengthy, boring videos to watch.

And really, a story? Why would you want a story for that, it'd be so stupid, like putting a story to a racing game. The games just about winning fights/races, not about changing the outcome of something bigger or the least bit important/relative to the topic.

Arcade is not a step backwards. I suppose neither is realism. Arcade is about fun, which is why games were created in the first place. Realism is about making it seem like you actually did it when all you really did was sit on your *** and press a few buttons

I understand that fighting games really don't need a storyline, which is why I stated that games of other genres could take in martial arts or fictional fighting styles (instead of always just being focused on weapons) to have the player take down enemies. Shenmue was a great example of that (being an action-adventure game). It took in the fighting engine and moves of the Virtua Figther games. If Shenmue 3 could be released at any point in time, I'd say that it would be one of the best open-world games out there. Unfortunately, the creator of the Virtua Fighter, Virtua Cop, and Shenmue franchises, Yu Suzuki, had spent possibly over $100 million on both of the Shenmue games ($70 million on the first game, including the cost of several scrapped projects, a version running on the Saturn, and groundwork for future installments,), and both games sold less than 1 million units together, so SEGA made it clear that it's less likely for a third game to come out. The game had a mystery setting to it, for you'd go around towns, asking people questions that are relevant to getting to the man who killed your father and avenging his death, which in turn, you'd get clues, and would continue asking questions. But you'd fight people over time, and you could buy toy capsules, soda, and even go inside of stores that offer arcade games to go and play classic SEGA games, so it had plenty of ways to keep you away from boredom. The story continued in the sequel and was left on a cliffhanger ending, which gave a possibility of another sequel, but it's been over 6 years since Shenmue II and no sequel has been said that it was being worked on.

The hack n' slash sub-genre is part of the fighting game genre, and like beat 'em up-styled fighting games, it has shown to impress in the field of the storyline, and can also impress in terms of the situations when you're fighting a whole bunch of enemies. In addition, God Hand and Viewtiful Joe, two recent fighting games (beat 'em up-styled ones) have used storylines and did alright (Viewtiful Joe received mostly positive reviews while God Hand had some mixed reviews). If Devil May Cry, God of War, Ninja Gaiden, and other hack n' slash and beat 'em up games can turn out well with a storyline, then there should be more games like these, and maybe later versus fighting games will take up new innovative elements that will allow them to be less linear and to finally be more original again.

As for racing games, I think, just as for sports games, it's almost impossible to make a story that would be a truly innovative and original one as well as a very impressive one. But, even with that said, I think that people should risk trying to get a story to work, even if such a game wouldn't sell well. You still see street racing movies being made, and they may not have really good storylines, but that isn't stopping the many fans from buying tickets or copies of the movies. Something like a biography/history of events surrounding a famous person would be a good idea for racing game (like a game about Keiichi Tsuchiya, the man responsible for popularizing the motorsport of drifiting, for instance). Maybe it would work, or maybe it wouldn't, but why not risk it and see for yourself if you like storylines in mediums?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FutureVenturer2,

Another competitor awaits D4/D5, and that is Need For Speed: Undercover, which may be a game like D1 and the NFS games put together. This may be the biggest driving experience ever, only for the car chases though. After all, this franchise has been largely focused on police pursuits. If you put it all together, Ubisoft Reflections has a big chance of disappointing these somewhat rip-off titles (Wheelman and NFS: Undercover), which, if all goes well, it can bring light to the Driver franchise again, and maybe it'll take the driving experience to new dimensions (not just the car chases, but all kinds of things which driving elements in video games are capable of).

I'm not much of a fan of NFS. Last one I played was Underground, and it was cool at the time, but they've released so many NFS games it just got old fast. Sure, theres cool cars, and I guess the more recent titles which I didn't play had free roam. Are there police chases in free roam?

Need For Speed Most Wanted was the only one that I really enjoyed... although Carbon was OK... :S

But then the NFS games were ruined by Pro street

this NFS Undercover title is actually starting to look interesting... and I think that they're going to add on foot mode, just from looking around at the videos/hints it seems like it


I am not that confident in the reflections team standing up to this competition in this genre...
before, Driver didn't really have any Real competition, but now this may kill off the Driver games permanently if they dont buck up their ideas

(I just hope UBI are doing alot of behind the scenes work!!)

NFS Undercover sounds interesting. On foot is a neat option, but unless it's backed with great gameplay and purpose, it gets boring just walking around with nothing to do but walk around looking up at buildings and shooting. Even the option to walk into buildings isn't enough anymore if the gameplay stinks.

The only hint I read was "inspired by the Transporter". The odds of the game releasing this year are very slim, they don't even have a screen shot for it, and only a few months to go.

One of the things I absolutely hate about NFS is the damage to cars, its so minor it just looks bad. I realize they're licensed cars and you can't do as much to them. I still don't like it, I want ultimate carnage, I hope Driver can deliver on that, I remember when they promised real-time damage way back in D3. Maybe they've been developing it since then, just the technology couldn't support it. Crossing fingers!

I used to worry about Driver being killed off by GTA. Everyone puts the two games in the same category, and for the most part they do fit together, but if GTA hasn't killed it yet (still waiting for evidence of a sequels existence), I doubt some Wheelman game that few (compared to GTA) people will probably buy will do it in.

And Ubisoft, unlike Atari, is in no danger of going under that I know of. They've got plenty of hit games, so they're not hurting for some "GTA killer app" to make all their revenue, Reflections should get the time it needs within reason to polish this game until its looking like an updated version of Driver 1. Bring back San Fransisco!!!

As I'm continuing to look for games that I'm interested in, and as I'm looking at what the video games industry is capable of (now and later), I think that this industry will take much longer than any other medium to mature itself. The complicated coding/programming, the increasing prices for development kits (on consoles), the greater sizes that are demanded for teams, and how much complexity lies within this medium all translate to a long time of advancements that can bring it wherever previous mediums have been/are at. Video games go very well with the computer.

In fact, the very first personal computer, the PDP-1, was created in 1962, the time of the first-ever computer/video game (Spacewar!). Many have claimed Pong to have been the first video game (created by Nolan Bushnell, founder of Atari and of Chuck E. Cheeses, as his second game; his first game was Computer Space, released in 1971, a commercial failure), but it wasn't; it was the first truly commercially successful video/computer game, and it was the game that, unlike Spacewar! (a commercial failure), finally influenced others to go on to creating their own video games/computer games. This interesting connection between the computer and the game make it clear that games are just as (if not more) sophisticated than computers. Creating everything from the AI, to the physics, and so forth, has been a great challenge to advance further. Even as people are becoming better at these things, I don't believe that we'll truly see a future of many games with non-linear stories combined with open-world gameplay, without cut scenes, etc.

Too many game developers reuse ideas rather than changing them up further. What it means to make a game a pioneer of something is it needs to either create a whole new set of rules (the foundations of genres and gameplay are built all around this), or that it must simply offer very new kinds of interactivity. This is a task that I would really wish to tackle in order to have most of my games truly be pioneers rather than just huge blockbusters that sell lots of copies and make tons of profits for a game publisher of mine and for my game developer. That is why I won't spend very much time at all researching/playing around with many games from the current generation to see what they have to offer. Instead, I'll rely mostly on games (whether they're commercially successful or not) that have several unique gameplay mechanics (not one, not two, but more than that). It is likely that I will stop spending time on any franchise in particular, for while the sequels can be interesting, they're done not to have game publishers take any great risks, such that they can sell a lot (familiar works, or rather, sequels, have been proven to sell better than some completely new projects). But it's not just that; the games industry needs to offer up lots of things that have yet to come. Franchises of other mediums (movies, books, manga, etc.) are not such a big problem to me.

Wheelman looks like a good choice for over the top open world arcade driving action. It's not very realistic, but looks like fun.

Driver 1's still a favorite driving game, but comparing it to TDU, it fairly pales in terms of framerate, graphics, but is excellent in terms of vehicle control, great chases and physics.

I've recently read an article on Game Critics.com that defines the word "last generation" and I've realized that it would be a very appropriate term to use towards GTA IV. After all GTA IV has decided to throw away most of what was established between GTA:VC and GTA:VCS, going back to the likes of GTA III, and it offers less for you to do in the free-roam portions of the game. It feels more like a more tweaked and beefed up version of GTA III, for that matter, due to it taking place in Liberty City and for sacrificing the great amounts of freedom for better qualities in multiplayer, graphics, and the gameplay (not that there's anything wrong with that). Thus, I will have this game be the last GTA game that I'll go on to playing. It seems as if the next GTA game will only have old ideas to offer, which can be a big destructive factor in its franchise's reputation and more in Rockstar North's reputation.

I certainly hope that D4/D5 nor any other Driver game that is coming out in the future will be anywhere near that is appropriate for it being called a "last generation" title.

It looks as though 99% of future freeroaming games (that are succesful) are/will be based in just Miami and new york

so really they are focussing more on the features and less on the actual levels/islands

and the new game series that try to jump onto the Driver/GTA bandwagon tend to fail because they have to spend alot of time focusing on the levels and not the general gameplay (the wheelman looks like the only new game series with any chance of competiting with the high rollers)

I'm definately tired of NYC, Miami, LA, etc..

Other than those, I'd be happy to see a return of any other city from a past game, but the only American city I can think of that I'd want to see again is San Fransisco. Ok, maybe Chicago too with all the drawbridges.

Really I'd like to see Sydney Australia, or any other place in Australia (for lack of knowing any cities there).

not enough places in the world are known for having Gangstas like the Mafia around to have anywhere

if they want to develop a new city, then it has to be known for alot of crime, like drugs, bank robberies, murders, ect

afterall Driver is based on you playing as a cop... who obviously has to fight crime... so if your in a city with no crime then the game would be dull...

and in GTA if there was no crime then you wouldn't find anyone to work for, so there wouldn't be a way to be a criminal and still make huge amounts of money... (which GTA is kinda all about)

First off, I've been waiting days to respond to this because this forum is **** and always says theres some kind of problem when I log in. Its very annoying. Now to the point:

No it doesn't. This is the lamest excuse for actually having a cool city, and I hear it all the time. You might as well say San Andreas is a true story.

I see no reason why they cannot use a city with low crime. ITS A GAME!!! Its all made up, make up the crime if its that much of a problem. Does anyone have imagination anymore? I know nothing about NY, Miami, LA, or any other city but mine (****-hole). Why can't crime happen anywhere else? And if its that much of a problem, MAKE UP A CITY!!! AH!!! LOUD NOISES!!!

I have to agree with J_Frumpleberg. Cities with not so much crime can be used too. If a really great storyline comes along, it is possible for almost any city in the U.S., or even any city in the world to be suitable for a game centered around crime. And if that's so hard to make possible, then a game developer should make a fictional city.

It puzzles me as to why Detroit hasn't been used yet for a city in a video game. This would make a great place to have a crime setting for a game. But, if there needs to be a game with lots of variety, (not always having a city that has a high level of crime), then I'd say Colorado Springs would be the perfect place for a crime setting because you have mountains, hills, forests, urban areas, surburban areas, and so much else that can make the game feel very fresh. As far as I'm concerned, Driver should rely more on the driving experience than even on the crime setting, so a fictional city based on Detroit would suit a GTA game (to make the GTA franchise fresh again, instead of always reusing Liberty City, Vice City, and San Andreas), whereas Driver would feel great in a place with lots of terrain. Colorado Springs is one of the best places for lots of terrain, and it's even a good city for businesses as well as artists, scientists, etc. (those looking to change the world based on their visions), and even has lots of beauty to it that I would recommend it as a city. I've been over there twice, so I know what it is like.

Lets have game developers cut this crap out with LA, NYC, and Miami because it's starting to really bore a lot of people.

Barcelona, Spain is at least a new location, whether it has crime or not, in Wheelman.

But yeah, a city shouldn't be excluded based on low crime rate, as it's a gameworld, stuff can be made up. Of course, when the real city gets bent out of shape over a video game, I can understand why it's easier said than done (GTA4 based on NYC, NYC officials were upset, and Venezuela or somewhere close, got defensive about Mercenaries 2.)

WHEELMAN CAMERAS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNPEHmLNRsU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u70ZjgPwEfk&feature=related
The link above is The Wheelman GC 2008 - Developer Walkthrough Pt 1 (Cam) and 3, which features the intro level mission being played through.

While watching the demo, there's a text tip that shows up onscreen saying "DRIVING CAMERA: Press 'R1' to cycle through cameras."

Of course the guy playing the game doesn't change camera views, but it's at least promising to know there's likely more than one camera view to play the game with. The more views, the better the experience, as you can get just the right view you're looking for. The default camera is nice, but I like something closer, even in-dash would be nice to have.

Game looks like fun, in a "Driver" arcade style. I'm very interested to see how Driver 4 separates itself from this game beyond unique missions and driving physics, stunts.

Part 3 looks like it might show some interior dash views, haven't loaded it all yet... Cyclone is in-dash for a few seconds, shoot behind or forward.. The car jump-jacking looks useful and faster than exiting the car.

Still haven't seen any cameras cycled through in-game.

quote:

and I think that they're going to add on foot mode,

EA will never do it. It would ruin the NFS image toward themselves. Remember that NFS is a racing game, not a driving game like Driver or Wheelman, and therefore, there's no need for a on foot gameplay on it, as it would also ruin their image.

Anyways, Wheelman doesn't look all that great. It may be good, but I'm not so confident about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Nickin_Bra:

quote:

and I think that they're going to add on foot mode,

EA will never do it. It would ruin the NFS image toward themselves. Remember that NFS is a racing game, not a driving game like Driver or Wheelman, and therefore, there's no need for a on foot gameplay on it, as it would also ruin their image.

Anyways, Wheelman doesn't look all that great. It may be good, but I'm not so confident about it.

From the screen shots shown so far, there's almost no chance there's going to be a regular interior dash view to pick from, just all exterior car views, considering all the ramming and action that requires the car to be seen. Big mistake I'd say, if that's the case.

I'll check the game out, but in no way do I expect it to be an amazing game. Fun, maybe.

NFS:Undercover will probably have on foot cutscenes, but I agree, it's very unlikely there'll be on foot gameplay. There's likely a bunch of features that allow the car to remain 'undercover'. With just 2 months till release, they sure are holding back a lot of info on the game. I expect a delay.

Update: I read Pitbull Syndicate is what this team used to be called back when they made some Test Drive Games on the PS1. Remember TD 4 and 5?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: InsaneDriver06,