I think there should be 3 cutdscenes the begginning, middle and end one other than that just intergrate into the gameplay.

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Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:

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Originally posted by kalle90:
I rather not have to choose bethween 2 same games, I'd likely buy just the better one. Maybe it would be GTA if they fixed driving and Driver would be the same. GTA puts it eggs on many baskets, while atleast you are telling to put them on single one.

I'd like to see the game be as movielike it could be without using cut scenes, or as few as possible. In cut scenes Tanner has chased people on foot, interrogated, fought, visited buildings, observed people, had conversations and so on. I'd like to see all those features smoothly included in actual gameplay, making it feel one hell of a crime story, with complete 1st person view option. Then all that implemented in Take a Ride and some mini games.

I understand your point and driving is currently the best part of game, perhaps only thing that doesn't frustrate me or anyone. I am just trying to make it something more. It gets boring to do the driving part, seeing how main charachter does something I can never do, then I have to drive again. I'd like to control all those other parts too and affect the outcome. Then in Take A Ride you could choose just to drive when I could use those other features.

Think like vids where Tanner has to shoot someone, if it would be in your control you could choose to shoot, not to shoot and make up some explanation or attack the other people. It would have to be action in seconds or people start to suspect you. There might even be multiple outcomes so even if you kill the gang it wouldn't be game over.

I see your point. Cutscenes should be full controllable gameplay segments rather than just watching it happen, though they'd expand into full on foot missions instead of cutscenes in between each racing/driving mission.

Yes Less that old arcade feel. Rather not predictable sequential driving mission-other mission build either.

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I think there should be 3 cutdscenes the begginning, middle and end one other than that just intergrate into the gameplay.

Not really. Game can't really be thought by forcing cut scenes here and there. Story should be overall planned and connected. Having just 3 cut scenes might make them very long, not necessarily bad.

Basically everything should be playable and in my control, but when for example player flies to other country and does stuff really hard to include to nowaday gameplay then cut scenes should be used.

No big deal, but I wonder if Tanner, if it is Tanner again, is going to use his answering machine to receive missions (Driver 1), or a cell phone like the guy from GTA4?

I remember playing Driver 1, wishing I was able to control the character inside Tanner's room. All that could be done was click left or right and it'd warp to the next option.

Cut scenes will likely be in the next Driver game. It's bound to happen. There are hardly any games without any cut scenes, except for a few games like Half-Life, Half-Life 2, and Bioshock. This element will likely always appear in video games since it is helpful to drive the narrative forward. However, as the technology in video games grows further, expect to see more interactions with the environment & objects within the world, meaning that this will allow developers to cut down on the amount of cut scenes. I'm sure that cut scenes will still contain some elements that won't appear in video games until either a little later, or a long way from today.

Don't let this disappoint you. As a suggestion for using cut scenes, I personally think that interactive cut scenes should be included, alongside with cut scenes that are there to drive the story forward. If you don't know what I mean by interactive cut scenes, then I'll give you a hint at saying that Resident Evil 4 had this, as well as games like God of War and Shenmue. What? You can't figure it out? Alright, alright. Fine, I'll tell you already. These cut scenes have buttons appear on-screen to allow players to tap them and perform certain actions, which while not entitling that feature with full interactivity, will allow players slightly more freedom. Driver could do this for avoiding attacks when fighting on-foot, for avoiding getting shot when driving a vehicle, etc. Although this is somewhat a linear approach to giving a game more abilities, I think that it would make for some pretty interesting gameplay for a game like Driver. Not only that, but it could have Driver differentiate a bit more from GTA IV.

Cutscenes should be gameplay scenes, where the gamer is required to interact or control something with the controller. Otherwise, we're just watching movie clips in our video games, and that's not what video games are about.

Video games: Interaction
Movies: Sit back and watch

I understand they want to tell a story, but it should involve input from the player at every moment, even during loading screens, there should be some kind of mini game to keep us playing, not watching. Final Fantasy's brilliant cutscenes are partly to blame.

You're absolutely right, InsaneDriver06. Video games are about playing, whereas movies are about watching. The problem is that technology hasn't been able to go very far, in terms of video games, to make it possible for all games to use interactive cut scenes, or no cut scenes at all. It's likely that games like MGS and FF will always go for having cut scenes, but don't let that bring your hopes down. I believe that as soon as developers are able to give more freedom to players, it will be possible enough to remove cut scenes completely, or at least to leave them in, but have them allow us to interact with them.

I've seen games before that actually allow you to wait and play a minigame during loading screens, so that can be done with video games in the future. And better yet, if Rockstar North goes really far in terms of freedom, just as its 6th generation games have paved the way for many games to come, it'll mean that we may soon not need any more loading screens. I do believe that the story structure will need to be represented in new ways, such that players will never leave the playing experience, as they are playing a game. Also, with other games like Bioshock and Half-Life, as sequels, coming out in the future, this will mean that the technology for a non-cut-scene direction will grow even stronger. I certainly can't wait for such an experience that will leave me playing throughout all of my time.

Perhaps the one difficult task which developers won't completely eliminate is having advertising in their games. This can many times take away any original ideas. As much as we need realism in some respects, we can't have it be right there, messing with all the features of a game. Even for a game that tries very hard to be as realistic as possible should not have real advertising in it. It can get out of hand sometimes with decisions for games like this. I know that Need For Speed: Prostreet's experience was deteriorated because of the away approach from the previous NFS games and due to the fact that there were so many real advertising ads. Therefore, developers need to use their budget on a game wisely, and not hoping that advertising will make their game better because it won't.

Eliminated loading screens or just keeping up busy by reading game tips, playing a mini game definitely help keep the focus on the game up.

GTA's intro load screen takes forever it seems, often enough to make me second guess plugging it in for a quick game.

Advertising in games, like a Mcdonalds sign, never bothered me in the slightest bit. I actually welcome it in open city games, as it makes the game seem just a fraction more real. Drive anywhere in the real world and ads are everywhere. It's so easy to ignore them.

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Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:
Eliminated loading screens or just keeping up busy by reading game tips, playing a mini game definitely help keep the focus on the game up.

GTA's intro load screen takes forever it seems, often enough to make me second guess plugging it in for a quick game.

Advertising in games, like a Mcdonalds sign, never bothered me in the slightest bit. I actually welcome it in open city games, as it makes the game seem just a fraction more real. Drive anywhere in the real world and ads are everywhere. It's so easy to ignore them.

I don't really get bothered by loading screens, they rarely last longer than 3 seconds, you would need Warioware to play. Most important is to make them shortest possible. Now Halo has more things to do and see but still the longer loading times bother. One simple thing could be in game feed, in True Crime I could just watch the life in the city and listen the great soundtrack.

I absolutely love advertisements in games, if they belong the athmosphere and doesn't take away too much. I really don't want to watch blank walls and made up advertisements aren't very good either. Advertisement in Splinter Cell is perfect; posters, familiar products on shelves and people using and talking about them (who doesn't love hearing about other games in game), realistic, and I can just pass them without getting bothered at all. Just a big plus. Though Chaos Theory had minor problem with the Airwaves thing, the huge zeppeling in sky felt bit too much. True Crime had good advertisement too, lots of them visible, but none penetrating my eyes or game.

I suppose it isn't that bad to have advertising in games. It truly depends on what kind of an approach a game is trying to make. And sometimes fake advertising in games may be boring, but at other times, it may actually fit a game well. I know that the Rockstar North makes great use of the fake advertising that goes on in the GTA franchise.

Right on. Advertising in games helps pay for the game besides. Never bothered me. Unless of course it's set in a fantasy world like Oblivion and they post Mcdonalds billboards on the trees.

It depends on how far the developer wishes to go into expressing itself. If a developer hopes to make the whole world be envisioned in its way, then the game would need to remain with little to no advertisements. Otherwise, this can really interfere with the vision of the developer and it can mess up the final version of a game.

For instance, with a Metal Gear Solid game, Hideo Kojima and Kojima Productions try to keep the form of expression as big of a picture in the game as possible, so even while the game is set near the time of the real world, it would disappoint and bring confusement to gamers if advertisements were put into it. Furthermore, it's not a game that is intended for a non-linear or open-world experience, so it'd be a ridiculous idea to have real advertisements in-game.

GTA's focus revolves around the lead character. Driver's focus needs to revolve around the vehicle. For the best chases and racing ever in a game, Driver 5 needs to deliver far beyond GTA's loose focus on vehicles for the sake of "everything else".

Not saying we can't have on foot, but instead of details like going inside a mansion, let's have details of going inside a car dealership. Instead of eating food, fueling up the gas tank for health, instead of breaking into houses GTA style on foot, smash through them with your car. That's the Driver way.

What a brilliant self-expression you've come to bring up, InsaneDriver06. We must remember that the Destruction Derby and Driver franchises are portions of Reflections' interests within the video game industry. The great form of self-expression found in Driver: You Are The Wheelman is that it largely had its focus on car chases. Around its time, it was the first and only game that brought together a storyline, a selection of cars, and physics as well as damage to truly create the best possible experience in interacting within a car chase. It's a shame that Reflections has been straying from that idea, in some parts, and that it hasn't put enough effort into each of its Driver games to help the car chases look unique. Due to the car chases' offerings of nothing but an outdated form of AI and its limited capacity in the kinds of skills/tactics which the police uses to take down criminals behind the wheel, it is really hurting this franchise.

It's actually possible that Reflections can stray from the self-expression of Rockstar North's, which is to have a world that allows your character to interact in many, yet still limited ways, and instead focus on the character, but in ways that will be all about the car chases. Straying from the original self-expression, which began a franchise, is the biggest mistake and disappointment that can be carried through by a developer. Broadness is not always the right way to push forth a video game franchise. I think that Reflections would leave a lot unanswered by taking a direction that broadly focuses on driving. One, it'd take up so much for a video game console or disc's capacity. Two, it may leave huge gaps in the whole form of self-expression, even though a title may form a new direction.

Reflections must not look too far in the aspects of driving, but it should still try to build heavily on its current driving aspects, most importantly the AI and amount of abilities/tactics the police can use in their cars to stop you, when in a car chase.

Great car chases with the option to go on foot and maybe shoot, but also climb, jump and do what any athelete is capable of, especially hopping over fences and two foot ledges without having to walk around them DPL style.

On foot should really focus on making the gamer realize their real strength is in a vehicle, not on foot. So on foot should make the player VERY VULNERABLE to getting run over, shot and attacked, while being in your vehicle keeps you more protected/safer.

The advantage should heavily lean towards driving a vehicle versus walking on foot in the game world. Missions should be accomplished always with the use of a vehicle. IMO.

Now that we know what needs to be done, I can conclude my thoughts about this topic. It's either that Reflections will push its next Driver game to a whole new direction, or it will continue the approach of GTA clones. I'm hoping that ridding the next game of its narrative (discluding the ability for pedestrians to have their own unique dialogue & personalities, which really helps make a game feel realistic and needs to be seen). If Reflections can follow the advice of removing its narrative in exchange for a much more fine-tuned on-foot & driving experience, this will maybe even put it over that of the GTA games, as it'll be a very non-linear game. Cut scenes will be gone for good if narrative is abandoned.

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Originally posted by FutureVenturer:
Now that we know what needs to be done, I can conclude my thoughts about this topic. It's either that Reflections will push its next Driver game to a whole new direction, or it will continue the approach of GTA clones. I'm hoping that ridding the next game of its narrative (discluding the ability for pedestrians to have their own unique dialogue & personalities, which really helps make a game feel realistic and needs to be seen). If Reflections can follow the advice of removing its narrative in exchange for a much more fine-tuned on-foot & driving experience, this will maybe even put it over that of the GTA games, as it'll be a very non-linear game. Cut scenes will be gone for good if narrative is abandoned.

Then the game would be purely about stunt driving and chases without wasting any time of cutscenes, when there's great gameplay to develop.

Are you saying that you agree with me, or that you disagree with my statement, InsaneDriver06?

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Originally posted by FutureVenturer:
Are you saying that you agree with me, or that you disagree with my statement, InsaneDriver06?

I agree, but I know Ubisoft and Reflections will present a story no matter what we say. My favorite game for over a year is Test Drive Unlimited, and there's ZERO story in that game, beyond buying, racing and driving vehicles/sportbikes. Fine with me. Less time wasted on trying to fit a story in there.

To me, racing games should avoid stories, like sports games avoid them. When you watch a baseball game, there is no story. It's all action.

But if we abandon story, what drives the car chases/stunts? Random crime in the game, or racing, or sporting events.

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Originally posted by InsaneDriver06:

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Originally posted by FutureVenturer:
Are you saying that you agree with me, or that you disagree with my statement, InsaneDriver06?

To me, racing games should avoid stories, like sports games avoid them. When you watch a baseball game, there is no story. It's all action.

But if we abandon story, what drives the car chases/stunts? Random crime in the game, or racing, or sporting events.

Racing games, like Forza, Burnout, Gran Turismo, Colin Mcrae and even Test Drive from what we have seen so far don't need story at all. Racers using "you're a son of legend driver" stories do feel laughable. I agree and accept that. Sandbox games are another matter.
My thoughts of:
Driver:
-Crime story
-Realism
GTA:
-Freedom
-Activities
True Crime:
-Smooth mix of driving, fighting and shooting.
-Police life

That's where my thinking of Driver comes.

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Originally posted by kalle90:
Racing games, like Forza, Burnout, Gran Turismo, Colin Mcrae and even Test Drive from what we have seen so far don't need story at all. Racers using "you're a son of legend driver" stories do feel laughable. I agree and accept that. Sandbox games are another matter.
My thoughts of:
Driver:
-Crime story
-Realism
GTA:
-Freedom
-Activities
True Crime:
-Smooth mix of driving, fighting and shooting.
-Police life

That's where my thinking of Driver comes.

You're probably right, Driver's better with some kind of story to tie it all together, otherwise, it's just random chases.

Then again, that works for me as I rarely ever replay the main missions of past Driver games when there's free roam to be had.

Ask yourself, "How many times do I replay the Driver missions, compared to driving anywhere, anytime, any vehicle in free roam?