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Forums Driver Driver - General Discussion Concerning the Driver franchise & the "GTA clone" Term|
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I'm quite tired of hearing terms mentioned with "clone." It only makes a game seem less impressive in what it was able to do. But most games of a particular genre are similar to one another and that is not such a problem. Personally, I don't think it matters whether a game implements new features or not, but that it works hard enough to make great use of those features. Therefore, it's ridiculous to criticize a game being too similar to another game. Instead, the features should be looked at in detail and described how good they are, based on what they set out to do.
Although GTA III really made the free-roam genre popular and took it to new heights, it only brought the GTA franchise into a third dimension and fused the elements of other genres and games to make the freedom and the rest of the game feel very good. The real credit as to which game pioneered the 3-D free-roam experience and the stealing of many different kinds of vehicles should be for that of Body Harvest, a 1998 game, like GTA, made by a Scottish developer that we all know, which is DMA Design (now is known as Rockstar North). Better yet, the credit should go even further, to that of a 1994 PC game called Quarantine. Therefore, it makes GTA a clone of those games before it, and it is silly to even see the term "GTA clone" being used. The most important thing, at this point, for Reflections is to make an even more improved game over DPL, which certainly did better than D3. Reflections did make some necessary changes for DPL, except when removing Film Director and adding a thrill cam, which slowed the game down after hitting a vehicle at high speeds (it was so annoying). Of course, DPL wasn't the best free-roam game ever, but it did improve in many ways for its own franchise. Make a Driver game that isn't too different and dissapointing for us, but make it level the amount of the experience of the Driver franchise more than that of the inclusion of features found in other free-roam games, such being the GTA franchise. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Assault_machine, "If you are to only stick to what is there, you'll never be at the top." |
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No no no, DPL is not better than D3. Together, features of both games would be better than either alone.
DPL may have high speed, lots of traffic, and... well that all it has, but D3 has way better crashes, fps controls on foot, sharp graphics that actually look interesting -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- jagshemash! |
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I think when you have a mostly serious tone to your game, like Driver 1, 2 and 3, then make it more comical like in DPL, many people will feel like it's trying to be more like GTA than a Driver game, considering the "cartoony" graphics, wise-cracking pedestrians, over-the-top walk animations(which were really well animated by the way), taxi-mini games and a few other elements.
Even said, DPL's driving engine is IMO, superior to anything GTA has done to this point. I'll have to see how GTA4's vehicles handle, but I'm guessing not as good as Reflection's Driver series, which always gets the weight of the vehicle down first, for more realism in handling compared to GTA's lightweight, quick turning cartoony cars. If a developer makes a football game first, and another developer makes their own football game afterwards, is the second game a clone/rip-off if it features different styles, features and gameplay, but has the same theme of football? No. A game theme is free for everyone, but Driver must stay true to the Car Chase Theme first, more than something like GTA's Character Theme, which puts vehicles second behind the character. -------------- Next Driver: Interior DASH view, Free Roam TAG MODE chases, Miles of Backroads, Intense Speed-Edge of your seat Action, MAJOR Crash Impacts, day/night cycle, tons of customizable options, lots of stunts, ON FOOT in FPS view/overthe shoulder RE4 style, sportbikes, more car camera views, "Drop a RAMP" Cheat, fun vehicle chases where THE CAR is the Weapon, not a gun... |
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I figure that you're only saying this because DPL was a shift from much of the focus of the Driver franchise. However, it gave many significant changes for the Driver franchise, many that were ideas from GTA games, of course. And although it was less realistic looking than D3, D3 had so many more technical issues (or glitches), just as GameSpot makes clear, some of which make the buildings be able for you to see through and the Xbox version's vehicles looked ugly, whereas DPL had much less problems with the graphics. Personally, even though DPL is a much closer approach to the GTA games than to the Driver franchise, I still believe that the significant changes presented in it(sequels are usually better with significant changes rather than always improvements over existing features). DPL had less glitches (except for the PC version and when running DPL on a PS3), so it turned out that Reflections succeeded more, with the help of Atari, on creating this game, and quite possibly, Atari made sure to help out even more with this game than they ever could with D3. This is a list of what I thought about D3, as the bad part: - is nothing more than the closest approach to realism - jumping is lame, as is the rolling ability - aiming weapons is repetitive - weapons are of a small variety and are not the very best ones for such a game - Timmy vercellis are just a really pointless idea of trying to make fun of GTA:VC - missions are pretty boring - Film director is very short, in comparison to D1 and D2's. - has realistic models of vehicles and buildings as well as better damage effects and explosions (DPL had better physics, however) - the story was pretty terrible (DPL's wasn't so good too, but is not as bad) - the soundtrack was annoying - the AI in D3 was often times laughable and is very stupid. There was a mission with Tanner when he was in Istanbul, at a building, where Jericho had gone to speak with someone. After Jerich is done speaking, all of a sudden, Tanner has been spotted and runs up the stairs. As he runs up the stairs, he kills a guy who gets shot three times in the back and doesn't react. On the roof, there was one guy who was on the other side of the rail, where the ledge was and where you can fall the easiest. This didn't make much sense at all. - Having a narrator speaking for a Driver game and for a storyline that is pretty terrible, only made it worse and it even got annoying at some point of time. Since DPL had less glitches, it's graphics and framerate, in the end, turned out much better than that of D3's. The gameplay was better too, even with the exclusion of swimming and rolling. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Assault_machine, "If you are to only stick to what is there, you'll never be at the top." |
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The glitches in D3 were more fun than a lot of DPL. I do appreciate the high speeds, smooth framerate, and tons of traffic (though maybe less would help the cop chases), but it just doesn't stack up to D3, which also is not a great game, entertaining for a few minutes
The realism in D3 is only to en extent, its not overly realistic where its annoying (Gran Turismo), and its arcadey enough that a new player can jump in and drive car almost as good as a pro. As I've said before, I'm no fan of the more and more realistic physics seen in DPL. I prefer the exaggeration of D1 or D3 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- jagshemash! |
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Realism used to be the one approach that I've been wanting in several games of mine that I hope to work on. But when I learned more about the Video Game Industry, I realized that photorealism in graphics and the best realism in a game are just not enough to make a game be worthy enough for anyone to play. The improvement and innovation of a game, on that of its genre, is what truly makes games go exceed any others. In the end, it's the other elements to it, including the artistic styles and other ways of innovating, that really help make a game spectacular. Therefore, D3 is more realistic than DPL, but, in many cases, doesn't deliver as much. This means that realistic games aren't always the best around. For instance, Super Mario Galaxy is perhaps the closest game to that of LOZ: Ocarina of Time, in terms of how good it was. It goes beyond any game, even that of the Platformer genre. Different ratings for games mean that a game will likely take a much different approach. Even Game Rankings ranked the everyone games higher than those with any of other ratings. The Teen rated games, while not ranked higher than the Everyone ones, was actually ranked higher than the Mature rated ones.
As far as D3 went, most people thought it was terrible, except, of course, for certain diehard Driver fans. The glitches (or technical issues) only made playing it feel worse and that much more broken. Trying to be very non-linear was the problem for D3 that caused it to experience so much problems and DPL tried to do non-linearity, to some of an extent, but didn't do as poorly. DPL felt much better, but still didn't do a lot for the driving and free-roam genres. Being a fan of a particular franchise is what I consider to be a slightly risky direction. Although I'm a member and am posting constantly on the Driver forums, I can't really say that I've enjoyed the Driver franchise very much. D1 was absolutely one of the best games I've ever played and its replay value is still a very good one. D2 was a fair game, but later on, its replay value and other aspects made it feel worse, so right now, I don't feel compelled to play it at all. And while I enjoyed D2 a lot in the beginning, I didn't enjoyed it anymore after I compared it to how well D1 did. D3 was a very bad experience, even though I played it some times with my cousin and fooled around. I don't see a very big chance of being around too often anymore because the Driver franchise has really not been the best that it could've been, but I think that I will post here for some time and afterwards, I'll only feel compelled enough to read other members' posts because posting on forums is really making me feel drained out and I don't appreciate it as much, nor do I enjoy it as much as before. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Assault_machine, "If you are to only stick to what is there, you'll never be at the top." |
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A big part of your frustration posting likely stems from the huge posts you write. If I complied all your posts, we'd have a 500+ page book. One suggestion, as useful as your thoughts are, is to reduce the amount of words it takes to say what your point is. It will take up much less time, allowing for other things. Just a suggestion, since you have quite a few great ideas for the Driver series, Driving Careers, Cop Mode being two of them.
Regarding the Gran Turismo series, it's not entirely realistic either(haven't played GT5 yet), thanks to crashes that stop dead with no impact or movement; they just stop moving the car, the inability to lock the steering wheel "full-lock" left or right, making turning in a small circle almost impossible, no true burnouts, (in Tourist Trophy, no foot down when falling at slow speed)... Those are the biggest gripes about the GT's lack of realism, as they're not representing the true capabilities of a vehicle if you can't even turn around properly. -------------- Next Driver: Interior DASH view, Free Roam TAG MODE chases, Miles of Backroads, Intense Speed-Edge of your seat Action, MAJOR Crash Impacts, day/night cycle, tons of customizable options, lots of stunts, ON FOOT in FPS view/overthe shoulder RE4 style, sportbikes, more car camera views, "Drop a RAMP" Cheat, fun vehicle chases where THE CAR is the Weapon, not a gun... |
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You certainly do have a point there, InsaneDriver06. It's good that you've criticized me in some way. And, no, I'm not angry. When you think about it, sometimes it is just good to get criticism from others because that can also ensure you that you can do whatever it takes to improve, which is what I've been known for doing a lot on the Atari forums. Therefore, I think that I can make it happen again. This time, I'll post 3 paragraphs or less, for the start.
As for why I don't feel like staying here anymore, it's not really that I post long paragraphs. In fact, I've been enjoying this, but little do I know that it is more suitable for when writing a book and this is simply posting, which is there for someone to get right to the point and not spend so much time on doing it. Also, I would like to make this clear that I'm going to start limiting myself in a number of different aspects because being broad is a problem for me on any kind of forums. This means that I'll post in only specific topics, such being this one, the "Next-Gen Driver Wishlist," and maybe even the one called "Don't Forget the Past." "If you are to only stick to what is there, you'll never be at the top." |
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I go around to lots of forums particular in the Driver Community and I always ready around see what everyone has to say and lots of times I find posts which are pages long and you get to the last work and your sick of reading.
An idea I've had for a while now is try to get interactive with your ideas. Make a simple driving game in a very simple game making app to express you idea. Draw a picture. Make a Presentation (Powerpoint or Flash) Take a Screenshot (change it to suit your idea) Make a Video (change it to suit you idea) If you have the skills I think it's a good idea, get people away from reading text and enables them to sit back and relax! |
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What a very nice suggestion it is that you've made, driver_madness. Wonderful. I'll keep that in mind for the future. As for right now, I am not an expert on computers, so this makes me less capable of extending my ideas on how I can have others interactive with my ideas. Sure I can post images, but I certainly would love to be able to do more than that and right at the moment, I've got so many things I need to do that are besides my hobbies and interests, such being posting on forums, so I don't think that it'll happen very soon.
"If you are to only stick to what is there, you'll never be at the top." |
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At the very least, your writing skills will definitely improve, as they already have, with plenty of writing, so it's not a loss either way.
I find myself erasing long paragraphs that I spent five minutes writing, looking at it and wondering how I could better sum it up, as I know most people skip through "essays". Simple and to the point is the answer. -------------- Next Driver: Interior DASH view, Free Roam TAG MODE chases, Miles of Backroads, Intense Speed-Edge of your seat Action, MAJOR Crash Impacts, day/night cycle, tons of customizable options, lots of stunts, ON FOOT in FPS view/overthe shoulder RE4 style, sportbikes, more car camera views, "Drop a RAMP" Cheat, fun vehicle chases where THE CAR is the Weapon, not a gun... |
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Yes, you're absolutely correct, InsaneDriver06. We must make short sentences and paragraphs that, however, will not be weak and, instead, have to be right to the point.
I want to make clear that Reflections, at this point and since the 6th generation, is lucky enough to be able to make good games, if more work is placed upon its games, and mainly, all that ever needs to be considered for this is the direction of realism, hollywood car chases, and of other vehicles, as well as certain GTA elements. Without the Scottish developer Rockstar North, it would have done no justice at all for the idea of non-linearity. It is what keeps driving the concept forward the most. However, once developers have gained more time and have done more work for their games, I'm sure that they can become, soon enough, as highly competitive as Rockstar North. It just will take some time before that will be possible. This is exactly what happened in the transition from previous video game generations to that of the current 7th generation, which saw the Sony Playstation consoles dominate, once they were released, but Microsoft and Nintendo have made vast improvements to ensure that such will not happen again this generation. Sony, too, is a highly competitive company for video games, but it will need to bring forth more for its games. The same could be seen with Volition and Reflections for going towards dominating the free-roam genre, particularly, the crime city setting. Edit: I've recently had this pretty interesting idea for how movies can be made to appear. This involves the use of the first-person view, which would make it feel as if you're the main character himself/herself. There is no knowing whether such an idea would go well, but I just thought I'd share this with everyone. "If you are to only stick to what is there, you'll never be at the top." |
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As far as the whole GTA type sandbox game, the last thing I want to do is pop in the new Driver, and think, "It's an open-city GTA-style game, but with Driver vehicle controls." That's kind of how DPL turned out, but I know it was only a side-game to the series.
GTA Formula: -Visit spots on the map for guns, cars, health, missions. -Have a hideout to store vehicles -Each pedestrian makes humorous remarks -Open Sandbox gameplay, go anywhere anytime -Cartoony controls on foot and in vehicle -Unlock new parts of the city to explore only by completing missions -Customize character, clothing, cars -Land, air, sea vehicles There's plenty more to add, but that's the general gameplay formula that's being repeated over and over in games like DPL, Saints Row, True Crime, even Mercenaries/Just Cause to a degree. The formula is getting dull, each game starts to feel like the same experience with a new coat of paint. Gamers expect certain features in an open world game, but the part that is a big giveaway is having Pedestrians make humorous remarks on the street. They don't do much else besides that. Not saying remove some key features, but think of new ways to present an open world driving/on foot game. -------------- Next Driver: Interior DASH view, Free Roam TAG MODE chases, Miles of Backroads, Intense Speed-Edge of your seat Action, MAJOR Crash Impacts, day/night cycle, tons of customizable options, lots of stunts, ON FOOT in FPS view/overthe shoulder RE4 style, sportbikes, more car camera views, "Drop a RAMP" Cheat, fun vehicle chases where THE CAR is the Weapon, not a gun... |
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I too thought of making a video, but then I realized, I don't want to crash my car, and running around in my neighborhood with a gun is not a good idea
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- jagshemash! |
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You said it, InsaneDriver06. The gameplay for free-roam games with crime settings is too much the same. And the pedestrians should be able to have a lot more ways to speak, other than just ways referring to humour. In my perspective, I see that while humour is great for a video game, the other moods should also be set in the game. For instance, while some moods can be bad, such as pissing you off or making you feel sad, it makes a game more dramatic and realistic. The more moods a game offers, the more it will be able to push forth, especially when you're trying to make a free-roam game that is more different than those of today. Mafia is a good example of a video game that is dramatic while GTA is the best at humour. And a really good game that, however, isn't a free-roam game, and focuses on many moods is Resident Evil: Code Veronica (Dreamcast version) & Code Veronica X (PS2 version). It displays great amounts of horror and, for the first time, really makes great use of a sad mood at one point in the game. The sad mood is that one of the main characters, Claire Redfield, cries after another character named Steve Burnside, who, professed his love to Claire, after being mutated into a huge creature, and killing himself to save her. This is one of the reasons why RECV was better than all the other Resident Evil games, except RE4. If we are to see more games that present all kinds of moods, there's no doubt that this will really make the story and the rest of the game feel a lot better. I think that when too much action is present, this prevents a game at having any mood, much as is seen at times when you're trying to kill a lot of enemies, particulary soldiers, at once. And if more moods can be present, this can really make a game feel realistic, as well as ensure that people will end up less influenced by bad things. If GTA was to have more than just humour, I don't know how it would end up, but if it really showed how dark it is to be a criminal, that would be a lot of help towards having many people notice that it is wrong to be influenced by such. Here's something that I think is a good example of drama, coming from Mafia (this is the ending for the game): http://youtube.com/watch?v=IEKeRRpHZPE&feature=related Perhaps, an example like this, coming from Mafia, shows why it was the best story that has ever gone into a free-roam game, within that of a crime setting. Note: I've made changes to the first, second, and third post of mine, in this topic, making them shorter and closer to the point, so I hope that you guys will read any one of them again, (most importantly, the first one) if you haven't read them all yet. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Assault_machine, "If you are to only stick to what is there, you'll never be at the top." |
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Mood of a game is important, and for Driver, a bit of serious mood makes for a great chase. Comedy at every corner is good for GTA, not Driver. Now and then a humorous remark won't hurt.
Mood is fine, but tons of action doesn't hurt either. Consider a game like Earth Defense Force, where literally hundreds of giant ants, alien ships and giant monsters are attacking your squad at once. It's an onslaught like few games deliver. That alone creates the mood of being overwhelmed, as it's pretty exciting stuff turning at every corner, surrounded and slowly blasting your way to survive. -------------- Next Driver: Interior DASH view, Free Roam TAG MODE chases, Miles of Backroads, Intense Speed-Edge of your seat Action, MAJOR Crash Impacts, day/night cycle, tons of customizable options, lots of stunts, ON FOOT in FPS view/overthe shoulder RE4 style, sportbikes, more car camera views, "Drop a RAMP" Cheat, fun vehicle chases where THE CAR is the Weapon, not a gun... |
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If you're talking about a game like Earth Defense Force, it is simply just a third-person shooter and while it received a 71% as its ranking from Game Rankings, I don't feel too impressed with it, as a game. Yes, Driver does need more of a serious mood put towards it, but I think that more moods will be necessary as well. Drama would actually be a good way, in some cases, to help make the story feel great, so that is one of its options for a mood.
And when you speak of killing so many things, I'd rather see a lot of action being found in a strategy game or even for a game that us largely focused on being a shooter (and which isn't low quality as that of Earth Defense Force, nor that of Shadowrun). Strategy games truly fit best for viewing thousands of enemies onscreen at once. I think that when you were talking about Earth Defense Force's killing of hundreds of giant ants at once, you kind of exaggerated because a shooter really isn't the kind of game that has delivered so many enemies onscreen. The only titles to deliver so many enemies onscreen are either the strategy or hack n' slash genres. Driver needs to have a real feel for when in a car chase, being serious for the most part, while the other parts of the game, like on-foot shoot-outs, or anything else, can offer drama, sadness, and all those other moods. The first thing that Driver needs in order to accomplish this is to have the most realistic characters and a very really as well as unique storyline. It should revolve around the main character, the main character's friends and allies, and, of course, around the antagonists of the game. If the cut scenes, dialogue, and gameplay can make the story and characters develop very well, there's no telling as to how far such a game will go. These are the other ways, along that of the mood, which must also be included to help the story feel as a good one. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Assault_machine, "If you are to only stick to what is there, you'll never be at the top." |
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Literally, hundreds of ants onscreen at once, a lot like hundreds of zombies at once in Dead Rising. It's possible on the new systems. But as far as having anything to do with creating mood, they have little to do with Driver. Not sure if mood has an enduring quality though, like action packed chase scenes do. However, a game like Mass Effect, which is praised for it's "incredible story" more than the gameplay itself, proves a great story can make critics overlook the faults of the gameplay itself(mass effects repetitive planets, poor tank controls, and clumsy cover-shoot tactics among some glitches like pop in and crashing. -------------- Next Driver: Interior DASH view, Free Roam TAG MODE chases, Miles of Backroads, Intense Speed-Edge of your seat Action, MAJOR Crash Impacts, day/night cycle, tons of customizable options, lots of stunts, ON FOOT in FPS view/overthe shoulder RE4 style, sportbikes, more car camera views, "Drop a RAMP" Cheat, fun vehicle chases where THE CAR is the Weapon, not a gun... |
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Yes, I did hear that Dead Rising has a lot of zombies on-screen at once. It seems pretty amazing to me, considering that you can use almost anything in the environment to kill them. But Earth Defense Force's enemies, that being ants, really seem like a weak idea for a game. And considering that the other Earth Defense Force games got fair and bad reviews, I'm not impressed by that at all.
I've recently had the chance to, once again, look upon the review on the PC version of Mafia, from the very well known and popular game site, Game Spot. It does give all the good impressions as to what kind of a game it turned out to be. And when looking at it, it just blows both Driver and GTA out of the waters, in terms of realism. Even its physics and damage as well as its models are better than those of the Driver franchise. Also, I've recently looked at DPL's missions, from videos of Bonkergames, over at Youtube.com (since I didn't get the chance to play through the whole game) and I'm very unimpressed by the whole game. Of course, it's safe enough to call it a fair game, but even by saying that, it feels to similar to all the other free-roam games and hardly delivers any more new features to make it a very worthy and enjoyable game. I'll also have a look at the weapons, vehicles, and other objectives found outside of the main storyline to get to know the game better, but just by having seen the storyline, it has already identified to me how the gameplay feels, as well as the controls and sound. It doesn't deliver enough to be a pleasant game. By saying this, I don't think that I'll regard any Driver game as anything that I've ever been able to enjoy, other than the original Driver game, which I still manage to enjoy, up until this time. Oh, and if you want to see the review of Mafia, go here. "If you are to only stick to what is there, you'll never be at the top." |
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