Yes, but what I meant was that no game developer has been moving on from one new game of a particular genre to another and not stopping at one point on a single genre. No one has been able to master every genre in the Video Game Industry and I am willing to work out on ideas that will blow each of the genres away. I have no single favorite genre and I will do whatever it takes to keep it that way by delivering so much for each and every video game genre.

Good luck with that, you got your work cut out for you. You better make a game engine like Criterion that can be used in many different ways, cause writing every single game completely from scratch is not very cost beneficial

Thank you, Matt_jon. I will do my best to ensure that I get as much of it done as soon as possible. I'm renting Gamefly and even have several books having to do with Video games, so I'm confident that I will succeed in the Video Game Industry.

Now lets go back on topic. Since this is a place for discussing every game in the Driver franchise, I would like to say what I think of DPL. When you look at DPL and compare it to GTA:SA, you find similar things such as:

- high speeds when having used nitros or even when just driving
- customizations for vehicles
- similar cartoony graphics
- cops are stupid in the game
- mayhem for shooting things in the city like people and vehicles
- similar Story missions (a lot of the missions in GTA are much like those of Driver, especially ones with chases. Driver should push it mission-based driving even further to ensure that GTA doesn't get the better of the mission design of the game.)
- helicopters
- camera views
- both have no start menu, it instead being a pause menu
- destruction derby track
- street races

This is all that I was able to compare of them both. I may update this list of comparances in the future.

It's quite a shame to have seen Driver take a lot of GTA's formula rather than pushing it further and even using their own formula of the Driver series to get the better of R* North.

Edit: Driver should use much of GTA's formula and even their own, but they should try to change it and become more innovative with those ideas that they have in their possessions in order to create a Driver game that can be considered a classic. There should be more than 100 missions that are about chases and even on-foot and driving action. Get really creative with the mission structure as you were able to do in both D1 and D2 as even at how GTA III, GTA VC, GTA SA, and the rest of the GTA games have been able to get that done. Look at other games of a different genre for more ideas too. The driving, on-foot, destruction, realism, and many more things, should all be done better than in the past.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Assaultmachine1,

I'd have to say the mission structure has always been fairly simple, mostly chase this guy, evade this guy, steal these cars. They don't really get creative with the missions. Though there was a mission in D3 in Nice where you had to use the forklift to stack boxes so you could climb out of a building (it worked something like that), now thats a start, thats the kind of though that needs to be put into the missions.

Don't just design the city around driving, design the city around the missions, use creative license, only one person will care if its not 100% accurate (and we'll all have to suffer hearing about it for the next 2 years until Driver 5/6. And trains.)

quote:

Don't just design the city around driving, design the city around the missions, use creative license, only one person will care if its not 100% accurate (and we'll all have to suffer hearing about it for the next 2 years until Driver 5/6. And trains.)

Ha ha, very funny. Not. I think I know who you're talking about.

I wish the next Driver will have the reasons why I started playing Driver 1.All about the cars.

I think that the real questions resumes, "will Reflections be able to push the free-roaming genre further than the likes of Rockstar North? In Driver (I will always be referring to the first Driver game when saying "Driver"), Reflections helped put their driving physics to the test, which they got from working on the Destruction Derby games and they even were able to put together a great concept in which the cars would be based around the hollywood-style car chases. The team even allowed 3-D free-roam gameplay to first come into play as a genre for a game their of their's, which, ironically, is labeled a "GTA clone" when looking at D3 and DPL, even though it was Reflections that put 3-D free-roam gameplay into play, (being found in Driver 2) before that of even Rockstar North.

The team at Reflections Interactive took the on-foot approach with Driver 2. It allowed for us to see multiplayer, getting in and out of cars, closing and opening garages, both on-foot and driving missions, gang wars, a wider variety of cars (not only sports and muscle cars), hidden vehicles and cheats, and roads that weren't always straight. It was actually a great game for Reflections to have made as it even paved the way for GTA III. I think that if it weren't for D2, Rockstar North wouldn't have put the thought of 3-D free-roaming into play. Therefore, D2 was the bigger influence as it influenced GTA games, The Getaway games, and many others. It wasn't GTA that had done that, it was actually credit that I would like to give to this very game of Reflections. Congratulations Reflections for having 3-D free-roam gameplay come into play for the first time with this game. I'd give it a 9 out of 10 for a PS game while Driver would get a 10 for its great driving achievements. These two are really some great games to ever come upon and Reflections should look back at them both, trying to explore bigger ideas and ways to improve over their existing ideas.

Reflections should look at different video game genres, the first two Driver games, and even at GTA games. If they work really hard to look at a large length of different games, I think that they will do successfully. Remember that they are now also working on free-roam gameplay and that it all began with D2, so now, they shouldn't focus too much on the driving, and nor should they do that for free-roam gameplay, but they should not forget what they had done in the past with the two Driver games. Those two are going to be perhaps the biggest out of every other game for them to look at, considering the fact that they were quite successful.

Edit: For even greater measures, Reflections Interactive should find a way to somehow get the Edmondson brothers together again, so that they can find better ways to strategize and plan what they can do in order to assure that their Driver franchise achieves more success than that of the Driver games on the 6th generation consoles. I know that impossible is nothing, but that doesn't consider that fact that humans can spread their wings and fly like a bird. What I'm saying is that people can come to some way of getting things done and that can be said for when getting the brothers together. It doesn't seem to make any sense of why Martin left Reflections when that's probably what his entire career was focused on, so where is he now and what is his occupation? Has he retired? I consider to ask questions of such for when Reflections may give us a chance to ask questions like they had done when DPL wasn't released yet.

Driver 2 came out a year, maybe less, before GTA3. That is not enough time for someone to rip off another game and actually make a great game.

Not to mention, 3D was not a new idea back in 2001, or 1999 for that matter. 3D was the next logical step from.. uh.. uh, 2D, which most games had been using for years. It was only with PS1 and N64 and whatever Sega had to offer, that most games could finally make the jump to 3D.

Have you ever played GTA1 or 2? Its basically the same thing as GTA3, only from a top down view. So, GTA did not copy Driver 2 or 1, they basically took the next step forward in gaming once they had the technology to do so. I think it could've been possible for them to make the first one 3D on a PS1 or PC, but the graphics would've sucked (nowadays, like pretty much any other game)

And the fact that Reflections (or at least Atari who released these press conferences) keep using this stupid excuse, "Well, we were the first to do it in 3D! ha!!!1!1" just kinda pisses me off. Its such a stupid argument, like they were the ones who first imagined 3 dimensions.

This is not to say I hate Reflections or Driver, I love them both, but their PR is very stupid. They're making childish arguments to try to win back fans that have made the switch to GTA. And as I can see, it worked on more than a few people.

quote:

Originally posted by Driverman2006:

quote:

Don't just design the city around driving, design the city around the missions, use creative license, only one person will care if its not 100% accurate (and we'll all have to suffer hearing about it for the next 2 years until Driver 5/6. And trains.)

Ha ha, very funny. Not. I think I know who you're talking about.

There's two games in 2007 with NYC. Spider-Man 3 will have subways, GTA4, not sure yet, but I read it's a more accurate NYC for a GTA game, with real landmarks. It'll be interesting to see what the next Driver city will be.

quote:

Originally posted by matt__jon:
Driver 2 came out a year, maybe less, before GTA3. That is not enough time for someone to rip off another game and actually make a great game.

Not to mention, 3D was not a new idea back in 2001, or 1999 for that matter. 3D was the next logical step from.. uh.. uh, 2D, which most games had been using for years. It was only with PS1 and N64 and whatever Sega had to offer, that most games could finally make the jump to 3D.

Have you ever played GTA1 or 2? Its basically the same thing as GTA3, only from a top down view. So, GTA did not copy Driver 2 or 1, they basically took the next step forward in gaming once they had the technology to do so. I think it could've been possible for them to make the first one 3D on a PS1 or PC, but the graphics would've sucked (nowadays, like pretty much any other game)

And the fact that Reflections (or at least Atari who released these press conferences) keep using this stupid excuse, "Well, we were the first to do it in 3D! ha!!!1!1" just kinda pisses me off. Its such a stupid argument, like they were the ones who first imagined 3 dimensions.

This is not to say I hate Reflections or Driver, I love them both, but their PR is very stupid. They're making childish arguments to try to win back fans that have made the switch to GTA. And as I can see, it worked on more than a few people.

Well I do know that Rockstar North took the felony and closing and opening garages idea from Reflections, so there were at least a few ideas of Reflections that Rockstar North had decided to use for its GTA games.

Rockstar stole the idea to close and open garages? I guess Home Depot did too.

Enough about that. Lets get straight to what one can expect great from this thread, which would call for a long and good discussion about something.

I understand that I've mentioned the lack of creativity and new ideas that Reflections has put forth for both D3 and DPL (maybe even D76). They haven't gone very far with their ideas. For the 6th generation, many of the gameplay that we saw in the Driver games was too much like that of what has already been done and that's dissapointing to hear. I hope that Reflections can put an end to delivering the very same experience and that they will go very far to deliver things that will seem great and perhaps even surprising for what the team may be capable of. Somewhere inside themselves, the team must find a way to reach those high expectations and high level of creativity, putting it forth like never before. I want the team to work harder than they had ever witnessed possible for them to do. It will be very dissapointing if they screw up again and if they are not able to once again rise above the occasion like they had done with D1, D2, Destruction Derby 1 & 2, and even Stuntman.

You know what I think Reflections needs? Adrenaline. They should all form small paint ball teams, go out to a forest and raise hell, then, they need to take one of those driving classes where you can whip cars around and chase people. Then take what they get from that and put it into the game.

Reflections has very little creativity left in their games and that is making them fall apart, losing gamers and doing not so well in reviews, so they need to put forth more talent to make the action, driving, and free-roam elements feel like something special to the Driver series, much like what Rockstar North has been able to come up with for their games is special to them.

Driver can use all the ideas that made Driver 1 and 2 hits, but increase the intensity of each chase to the extreme through use of:
-faster speeds up to 200 mph
-behind the dash view
-closer 3rd person vehicle views(over the hood, shoulder for bikes)
-more weaving required (traffic count, obstacles)
-tons of ramps for high flying action
-tough to shake cops
-some great sound effects and special effects
-a chaotic sense of control, as though you're just pulling it off, scraping by through all the action on the edge of your seat.

Without those things, it won't grab the player like it needs to...

One thing I also noticed today about D3 is that chances are, if it looks like an alleyway, it is. This really helps because in the first one if something looks like an alley, you turn into it and smack right into a building.

I also like the small pathways that go behind a building, loop around and come back to the street on the other side of the building. These would be really cool if only the game had good AI and the fps controls were as polished as Halo.

Nice ideas, InsaneDriver06 and that's an interesting thing to hear, Matt_jon.

Driver needs to focus well on the main aspects of the game. Personally, I believe that what Reflections gets done for its game must be done very well.

What I don't like about the GTA games is the fact that because it features a variety of different gameplay elements, too much at once, many of it is not any more polished than that what was seen of it in a different genre. They make the driving seem less than it originally is and the fighting moves feel a bit less worth it than that of a fighting game. There are many other elements that it doesn't do very well, but many like the fact that the game has a large quantity of different ideas, ignoring the facts or maybe not even realizing that it doesn't perfect or make any of the elements from different genres look any better than it is of that time. It feels a little outdated if you ask me. There should be a bigger variety of different roles and people that each take into account a different genre than another person, which then will help the game increase of what expectations we have of how polished each of the game's ideas will turn out to be.

Reflections shouldn't have to work too broad as Rockstar North is with its GTA franchise. The only elements that the Driver Series should focus on is the amount of realism in the driving portion, how the character can use weapons and other on-foot abilities (there shouldn't be too many as that of GTA though), the level of narrative for the dialogue and story, the graphics, controls, and sound. Although Driver next-gen should look more intense and come in a bigger variety of interacitions that we are able to experience for both the driving and on-foot, it should not be done as broad and unpolished as that of the GTA games. I believe that the amount of polishing that goes into a game is more important than the quantity of how much ideas we are left for us to use. They need to make each portion and element of the game feel at least as great as that of a recent video game of that particular genre that an idea is based on. It shouldn't have to look any worse than the way that Rockstar North has made use of many of the elements in its GTA games.

Its obvious Rockstar doesn't put much work into any single aspect of their game, they make up for this by listing all the features of the game, and when they keep listing more, it sounds better. They don't bother to tell you they only spent 10 minutes making each one.

But I disagree on one part, Driver should have more on foot abilities. In GTA, all you can do is shoot, jump, swim and crouch, and like every other feature of the game, it is mediocre. But at least in GTA we could swim underwater, too bad that was thrown in at the last minute, theres no cool underwater structures (sunken ships, etc.) to be found, mostly just objects to find to unlock something, which isn't a bad idea, but they definately needed to expand on that idea further.

Driver needs the on foot to be more interactive with the environment, let us run and gun at the same time (and run backwards), jump, climb, duck, roll, dive, crawl, pick up objects, throw them, use them as weapons/tools, activate buttons that cause something to happen (open a door or turn on/off power, etc.)

The driving is pretty much already there, the cops just need to be able to keep up and ride your bumper through every turn

ON FOOT definitely should offer vehicle specific abilities, like grabbing onto a vehicle's roof, leaping out of the way of traffic, busting out windows with the butt of a gun, loading the trunk to store items you've lifted, grabbing onto the bumpers, hanging onto the front hood, rolling the car downhill while stepping out onto the roof for stunts, etc.

Those abilities will separate the on foot aspect, while keeping it focused on the vehicles.

I agree with you guys on the on-foot abilities and yes, R* North did cover up the fact that they didn't work on a single feature very much by listing a whole bunch of them. Driver wouldn't necessarily fit right in this category because it would be full of many flaws. I hope that Reflections can make every element in the game having been worked on very well and that enough time is given in order to provide great results for each of it. When I look at Driver 1, it didn't do too many things, but because of that, it had many of its elements done very well, considering the fact that the team spent a well amount of time for working on it and that would be great to see in the next-gen Driver too.

Driver next-gen should provide us with more abilities for both on-foot and driving, but not give off too much like GTA. This would not label it a GTA clone and quite possibly, Reflections can even have enough time to make everything that the GTA games have done previously look repetitive. I find this as a much better idea than just cramming in all the elements and hoping you get them all done. This will allow a Driver game to come out as good as it ever happened to be on the 6th generation consoles (and it was just terrible). Heck, it may become a game so big, it can top the original Driver game.

Quite frankly, I have to say that I would expect more from R* North than to simply cram in stuff that were already done in a different genre and not even be able to make it work just as well as a recent game from that genre it came from. Action-Adventure games are much better than this, especially The Legend of Zelda games and I expect R* North to change their direction a little.