Well I was hoping that all of us could keep our eyes open for news about D4 at E3!!

If D4 does end up being shown at E3 what do you hope we can see there??

I hope that we can get a look at the detail of the level(s) and tanner, and maybe even see what year D4 will be based in!!

Well preferably i'd like to see everything but i reckon they'll show a trailer maybe a short interview to go with it.

I wouldn't complain if all I saw was an interview with Gareth edmondson, Primarilly because I can tell if he is confident in their new game!!

and that will tell us whether D4 is gonna be a good game or if its gonna lack a little like the previous games

if you watch the interview with edmondson about D:PL you can tell he was pretty confident (not 100% though) and that was because they had completed there goal of making a game which has no where near as many bugs as D3 (where as he knew it was lacking something)


so just a short interview can tell us a lot about a game.

Pictures of the game better be, but a playable demo doesn't have to be. Demos, often times are a big distraction for the Developer, as it requires coding and programming just for the demo, that is otherwise absent in the actual game, and so they spend wasted time just presenting a demo that may/may not reflect the final game.

I think it's unlikly that we will see it at E3 this year, prehaps next year.

Just someone elses opionion but this blog suggests that there is 50% chance we'll see driver at E3 this year.
http://www.pureps3.com/2008/07/what-games-could-we-see-at-e3.html

Ubisoft, unless getting ready to spring a big surprise, usually puts all their big games first. 2009 better be the release year is all I'm hoping.

I really hope its released just before 09, because since I've came to these forums I have started to feel more and more negetive about the new DrIVer game and everytime I try to stand up for the Driver games I just get this annoying Pillick shouting about us needing a game which is basically on foot based, with a little driving... if I personally wanted that then I'd play Halo or GTA, and if this guy continues being so negetive about the game then I'll just give up on it myself and concentrate on other games.

quote:

Originally posted by smiler_16:
I really hope its released just before 09, because since I've came to these forums I have started to feel more and more negetive about the new DrIVer game and everytime I try to stand up for the Driver games I just get this annoying Pillick shouting about us needing a game which is basically on foot based, with a little driving... if I personally wanted that then I'd play Halo or GTA, and if this guy continues being so negetive about the game then I'll just give up on it myself and concentrate on other games.

Who's saying it needs to be just on foot? That would ruin the series in my opinion, as the main reason I play Driver is for the kick @55 driving. Driving needs to always be number one, otherwise, why bother? The weak on foot thus far has proven it's all about the driving.

I'll always be a Driver fan, no matter who says what about it. Opinions don't mean much, don't let them bother your enjoyment of a game.

You've misunderstood my arguements that were made at almost every time I spoke, smiler_16. Of course, I don't want the on-foot to be a major aspect of the gameplay. I think that the driving portion is more important since that was the main focus of the first game and Ubisoft Reflections intends to keep it as its staff's focus (as always). However, I also would want the on-foot to be polished up, to ca certain extent, where it can fare off pretty well for important actions that help you complete missions in the game. As we all know, Driver is not a racing title. If it was, there wouldn't need to be any on-foot elements for it at all. It's inspirations were many car chase films-- more appropriately, action-adventure films that were focused on detective stories (a sub-genre of crime fiction) and on car chases. These films include Bullitt, The Driver, Starsky & Hutch, and Gone in Sixty Seconds, as well as other movies. Each movies has a car chase, but that isn't the only focus of it.

The title "Driver" doesn't imply that the game is only about staying behind the wheel at all times. Sure, D1 had that as its only focus, and used other actions as seen through its cut scenes, but if Ubisoft Reflections was to take that concept into mind for the next Driver game, it would be a cliche, as many people are past that. Plus, it would feel nothing more than just an arcade title. If we want that feeling of being behind the wheel at all times, we can always go back to D1. Cut scenes shouldn't be the place for most of the action anymore, as many actions are possible to implement for the gameplay itself, and people wouldn't think that the game is very immersive if it offers little to no on-foot at all.

Think of it as how stress works. It is something that can be useful to you, and it can also be something that prevents you from moving on with your life. If you have too little of it, it wouldn't do you any good. If its in the middle, you can use it to help you do actions that you would think are vital parts of your decisions and of your life. But if the stress level is too high, this will prevent you from getting anything done. My point with this analogy is that, just like with stress, you can't have too little on-foot, as it would leave little to no point at all for it to even be there in the first place, but you can't have too much of it either,as that could interfere with the rest of the game's elements, like the driving and the story. Now, if you have an amount of on-foot that is somewhere in between, like enough to make the missions more compelling, and to make playing around in the game, doing things besides just the story, a lot more fun as well, it can really be put to good use. If Ubisoft Reflections implements on-foot in this kind of a way, it will really feel like a great factor of the Driver franchise, and we can then say that it truly belongs and should always stay, along with the factor of driving.

The on foot definitely could use some polishing up, as it's been average at best and poorly done at worst in the series in comparison to the finely tuned vehicle gameplay, that much is obvious to any Driver fan who's played a fair share of solid 3rd person action titles. But Driving needs to be the focus almost all the time during missions.

On foot, during missions, could be used as a last resort IMO (you'll have the freedom to exit a ride anytime, but it should cost you something, maybe a lost pursuit). Driver is about the vehicles first.

Speaking of 3rd person games, I think that there have been too many of them in trying to offer a city filled with free-roam gameplay. Because of this, I think that it would be a great idea for D4/D5 to switch to a first-person perspective, as that can make us feel even more immersed in the game, both when on-foot and when driving. Hence, we'd definitely get ourselves the Dashboard view camera, as that is set in a first person perspective. The game can also end up offering up an option of playing it in third-person view or first-person view, but it needs to avoid making one camera view or the other look bad, which I know is something that Driv3r couldn't live up to as one of Ubisoft Reflections' expectations.

quote:

Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:
Speaking of 3rd person games, I think that there have been too many of them in trying to offer a city filled with free-roam gameplay. Because of this, I think that it would be a great idea for D4/D5 to switch to a first-person perspective, as that can make us feel even more immersed in the game, both when on-foot and when driving. Hence, we'd definitely get ourselves the Dashboard view camera, as that is set in a first person perspective. The game can also end up offering up an option of playing it in third-person view or first-person view, but it needs to avoid making one camera view or the other look bad, which I know is something that Driv3r couldn't live up to as one of Ubisoft Reflections' expectations.

For on foot, a FPS view could work, but so could an Over The Shoulder view in combination with it. And a 3rd person view as well. The more views, the happier picky gamers will be. Personally, I prefer a OTS view, as it lets you be right there with the character, RE4 style.

For the vehicle, as many camera views as possible in order to make gamers happy with the way the game is seen. Just imagine GTA4, but they only kept it from a top down view as the only camera choice, like in GTA1?
The In-Dash view NEEDS to be in Driv4r, or they've made a giant oversight IMO. If anything, they need to look at the great camera views from TDU or Midnight Club Los Angeles and put those into Driv4r.

I don't really think that variety in camera views is a good idea, considering how it takes away immersion. Sure it may seem like more freedom to players, but I think that it could also be a big problem. D2 &D3 had options of more than one camera view and look at how that turned up. Also, the GTA games have that, and I personally don't like the fact that there is a camera view that replaced the idea of using R2 and/or L2 to look left/right/behind you, which started with GTA:SA, as it forces players to struggle with the camera when they're making a turn in the game. It becomes such a pain in the ***, and this is why GTA's driving physics aren't anywhere near Driver's. I would even think that I liked GTA III's and Vice City's driving better (even if it was more simple)because it didn't trouble players much at all and they could learn to drive well in a short period of time. In the Driver franchise, the camera is very smart enough to turn with the direction that the car is in, even when it changes its direction. Wrongly implemented cameras can be very frustrating in video games. I know this as D3's First-person view turned out to be terrible, nothing near those "real" FPGs (First-person games). Also, Super Mario Sunshine had a really clumsy camera view, such that whenever you went around corners, the camera might get stuck, preventing you from seeing where you are. This is what I fear might happen to D4/D5 if it holds on to the same principles for camera views that the GTA franchise has held onto.

I could still be fine if D4/D5 is a third-person on-foot experience, but I think that the game would feel more unique and original if it was a first-person experience, both on-foot and in-vehicle. This would definitely bring us one of the most detailed and immersive experiences ever. If games like Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Fallout 3 can handle being played in a first-person perspective, then why can't it be the same way for D4/D5? Besides, a first-person game is more likely to be without cut scenes, and a third-person game is very likely to offer some cut scenes, so I think that in order for a Driver game without cut scenes to finally come into the light, we need to see a first-person one. Also, with games like Mirror's Edge coming out, the first-person experience will draw closer to the third-person one, with more freedom in what players can choose as actions for their lead character(s) to perform.

quote:

Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:
I don't really think that variety in camera views is a good idea, considering how it takes away immersion. Sure it may seem like more freedom to players, but I think that it could also be a big problem. D2 &D3 had options of more than one camera view and look at how that turned up. Also, the GTA games have that, and I personally don't like the fact that there is a camera view that replaced the idea of using R2 and/or L2 to look left/right/behind you, which started with GTA:SA, as it forces players to struggle with the camera when they're making a turn in the game. It becomes such a pain in the ***, and this is why GTA's driving physics aren't anywhere near Driver's. I would even think that I liked GTA III's and Vice City's driving better (even if it was more simple)because it didn't trouble players much at all and they could learn to drive well in a short period of time. In the Driver franchise, the camera is very smart enough to turn with the direction that the car is in, even when it changes its direction. Wrongly implemented cameras can be very frustrating in video games. I know this as D3's First-person view turned out to be terrible, nothing near those "real" FPGs (First-person games). Also, Super Mario Sunshine had a really clumsy camera view, such that whenever you went around corners, the camera might get stuck, preventing you from seeing where you are. This is what I fear might happen to D4/D5 if it holds on to the same principles for camera views that the GTA franchise has held onto.

I could still be fine if D4/D5 is a third-person on-foot experience, but I think that the game would feel more unique and original if it was a first-person experience, both on-foot and in-vehicle. This would definitely bring us one of the most detailed and immersive experiences ever. If games like Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion and Fallout 3 can handle being played in a first-person perspective, then why can't it be the same way for D4/D5? Besides, a first-person game is more likely to be without cut scenes, and a third-person game is very likely to offer some cut scenes, so I think that in order for a Driver game without cut scenes to finally come into the light, we need to see a first-person one. Also, with games like Mirror's Edge coming out, the first-person experience will draw closer to the third-person one, with more freedom in what players can choose as actions for their lead character(s) to perform.

On foot, FPV could work, as I've agreed awhile back, but for the vehicle, to only have just an interior dash view (which is a must have view), would take away all the action of watching your vehicle get smashed up, hit awesome jumps, flip and roll, reverse 180 and all the other great stuff a 3rd person view provides. See my point? That's the power of a video game, it allows you to choose your ideal view and keep it there as long as you like, or so it's supposed to.

I think that a first-person view can make crashes look spectacular and it can leave players feeling as if they were actually right in the middle of a real accident. It's true that with a TPV, you can see all of the damage that has made its way into a vehicle of yours, but you could just tell by how hard you've been rammed into or rammed into an object, by badly cracked the glass on your windshield mirror and other parts of your car is, and by how the vehicle is functioning/what sounds the car is making. To me, the Burnout franchise will always feel the most compelling TPV for seeing you drive a vehicle, as you can crash it and damage it more than a vehicle in any other game from a different franchise. Awesome jumps are often treating players to a slow-motion effect, and I think that brings the fast pace of a racing/driving game down, so I think that it wouldn't be so bad to have a driving game centered completely around a FPV. It would feel more hardcore and realistic, meaning that its difficulty would be much higher, but I do think that the Driver franchise should cater to gamers that are of a hardcore demographic rather than to a more casual/newcomer one, so this would still likely work in the end.

But in case the Driver franchise stays in a TPV, I have a good suggestion. Whenever the player must go upto an object that is complicated (not something that can be done instantly), instead of a cut scene, the view should go from a TP one, to a FP one, and this would make the game more immersive, even though it would change a camera view at one point in the game. It is a useful mechanic say for games like Splinter Cell, since whenever you're using a computer, you still can see the screen where the environment is, but you are treated to a HUD, and it makes a game feel messy, sometimes even more than a cut scene, so moving the experience from a TPV to a FPV, at that given time, would really make you feel immersed in a game's world.

quote:

Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:
I think that a first-person view can make crashes look spectacular and it can leave players feeling as if they were actually right in the middle of a real accident. It's true that with a TPV, you can see all of the damage that has made its way into a vehicle of yours, but you could just tell by how hard you've been rammed into or rammed into an object, by badly cracked the glass on your windshield mirror and other parts of your car is, and by how the vehicle is functioning/what sounds the car is making. To me, the Burnout franchise will always feel the most compelling TPV for seeing you drive a vehicle, as you can crash it and damage it more than a vehicle in any other game from a different franchise. Awesome jumps are often treating players to a slow-motion effect, and I think that brings the fast pace of a racing/driving game down, so I think that it wouldn't be so bad to have a driving game centered completely around a FPV. It would feel more hardcore and realistic, meaning that its difficulty would be much higher, but I do think that the Driver franchise should cater to gamers that are of a hardcore demographic rather than to a more casual/newcomer one, so this would still likely work in the end.

But in case the Driver franchise stays in a TPV, I have a good suggestion. Whenever the player must go upto an object that is complicated (not something that can be done instantly), instead of a cut scene, the view should go from a TP one, to a FP one, and this would make the game more immersive, even though it would change a camera view at one point in the game. It is a useful mechanic say for games like Splinter Cell, since whenever you're using a computer, you still can see the screen where the environment is, but you are treated to a HUD, and it makes a game feel messy, sometimes even more than a cut scene, so moving the experience from a TPV to a FPV, at that given time, would really make you feel immersed in a game's world.

FPV would be tough to side ram cars, see who was in your blind spot, etc. Unless they innovate the option to look while driving, I'll need to rely also on 3rd person views, but a FPV for the interior dash would be an "often used" view.

Yes, but there have already been times when players were using the interior dash view in racing games and I'm sure that they didn't have such a problem with that. To allow looking to the back, left, and right sides of your vehicle, it could be done just as in the GTA games that were pre-GTA:SA, since drive-by shooting and knowing where your opponents were (if they were behind you, for instance) were pretty easy to use, so that would certainly turn out better than having a HUD or the kind of camera that rotates all around your vehicle in GTA:SA or GTA IV, which feels a lot like you were editing a video in Film Director and you decided to let the video show off all of the sides of the car. This idea doesn't work well since the camera would need to react to corners and make it so that you wouldn't need to turn the camera at every corner, which is more of a hassle than a feature that works to your advantage at all times.

Also, while I know that many games in a first-person view tend to be very linear, I don't think that we have to worry about that since Deus Ex, Elder Scrolls III & IV, and Fallout 3 are showing that it's possible to make a good story in such a perspective, so I think that there's still a good chance that D4/D5 can be a good game with it.

quote:

Originally posted by FutureVenturer2:
Yes, but there have already been times when players were using the interior dash view in racing games and I'm sure that they didn't have such a problem with that. To allow looking to the back, left, and right sides of your vehicle, it could be done just as in the GTA games that were pre-GTA:SA, since drive-by shooting and knowing where your opponents were (if they were behind you, for instance) were pretty easy to use, so that would certainly turn out better than having a HUD or the kind of camera that rotates all around your vehicle in GTA:SA or GTA IV, which feels a lot like you were editing a video in Film Director and you decided to let the video show off all of the sides of the car. This idea doesn't work well since the camera would need to react to corners and make it so that you wouldn't need to turn the camera at every corner, which is more of a hassle than a feature that works to your advantage at all times.

Also, while I know that many games in a first-person view tend to be very linear, I don't think that we have to worry about that since Deus Ex, Elder Scrolls III & IV, and Fallout 3 are showing that it's possible to make a good story in such a perspective, so I think that there's still a good chance that D4/D5 can be a good game with it.

The only issue with responding to all directions while avoiding what's in front of you while in FPV? No three dimensional vision or side vision as in, "from the corner of my eyes, I spotted an oncoming train". Hearing would have to play a bigger role then, if FPV interior dash was the only view. I still want to see the damage as it happens outside the vehicle, that's half the fun of playing a Driver game, and it would be an error to overlook it for the sake of "innovation".

Didn't it suck being stuck to one (sometimes 2) views in the past Drivers? Why limit it again?

We need as many views as possible (without being annoying to switch through)

If we're going to have multiple camera views, we shouldn't switch through them with a button, as that button can be used for something better, so I think that it should be done as many changes to gameplay are usually done in games and that is seen in the options menu. Now, if the game has many views, it should at least get rid of the one which tries to make you feel like you're in a movie by switching from time to time since that was only something which made it harder to actually see wherever you're driving. In the Driver games, it was where you'd see the front of the vehicle driving and then it would turn over to the back and film the car from a far distance, then it would repeat all over again. I personally think that it was a smart idea to remove that feature. Only if camera views help the player to drive, along with giving him/her some preferences should they become available to use. If its a filming-like camera view that you see in movies, and if it gets in the way of your vision, it should be available through film director.

The only camera views that should be available possibly can include a third-person view (right behind the vehicle, not far away from it) and a first-person view. Maybe the top-down view would feel great as well, but it might be too hard to drive around with. Lastly, we can have a interior dash view for all of the vehicles in the game. But if there was a second option, I'd rather stick with just a FPV (interior dash view included) since it would allow for a game that wouldn't be so much compared to the GTA franchise anymore. And I hope that if there are multiple camera views, the FPV shouldn't be excluded since recent games like Fallout 3 & Mirror's Edge are really beginning to make good use of it. And Fallout 3 only has two camera views (TPV & FPV), but I guess that is only because it's mostly based around travelling on your feet, so other camera views aren't necessary.

Another option could be to allow just the TPV and FPV (interior dash view included with it), but to allow players a certain mode that has them customize their own camera views (if they want something besides a TPV or FPV), as this would give a greater degree of freedom/variety to players. Besides, the TPV & FPV are the most recently used camera views, so it would make a lot of sense to just have these two. On the other hand, players would be able to create their own camera views, anywhere between TPV & FPV, or further apart. This would look great in the pause menu, as opposed to going back to a front main menu.