I have been playing the Hurricane Season campaign and I gotta say to myself, RAF pilots had to be suicidal to fly during the Battle of Britain. I know I'm just a noob, but DAMN. Hurricane bullets barely do anything but scratch the paint on an ME-111, I emptied my entire load into the left engine of one, CONFIRMED HITS, I saw the impacts, and at point blank range, and he didn't do anything more than smoke a little and tell me to fire a little to the left to scratch the itch he had there.
Is Hurricane Season an unusually tough campaign, or did RAF fighters really have it that tough?

My guess is that they were tough enough to go up in Hurricanes. But they should've went up in Spitfires

I looked at the armament for the spitfires and it doesn't look much better. Hell, I had trouble taking on Stukas in that Hurricane. They had tailgunners, sure, but this is rediculous.

The .303 with Dewilde ammo was actually very effective. Not in the demolish a plane way but in the shred the crew and sundry equipment type of way.

The game lacks the detailed intricacies of the damage that the many hundreds of bullets did to an airframe and its occupants.

Whilst not as effective as the larger calibre rounds, a few thousand .303 certainly caused enough destruction to hurt the enemy.

As armour was placed more and more on the airframes obviously this threat grew less, in saying that I would not like to sit in an airframe with 8 Browning's pointed at me.

Rifle calibre weapons make poor aircraft guns.

quote:

Originally posted by ParrotPatrol:
I have been playing the Hurricane Season campaign and I gotta say to myself, RAF pilots had to be suicidal to fly during the Battle of Britain. I know I'm just a noob, but DAMN. Hurricane bullets barely do anything but scratch the paint on an ME-111, I emptied my entire load into the left engine of one, CONFIRMED HITS, I saw the impacts, and at point blank range, and he didn't do anything more than smoke a little and tell me to fire a little to the left to scratch the itch he had there.
Is Hurricane Season an unusually tough campaign, or did RAF fighters really have it that tough?

In the BOB (real life) pilots were flying for their very HOMES. they have just seen most of Europe fall and know they`re next. In cases like that you`d fight with sticks and stones! There`s the determination and focus to FIGHT.

However, as to your question about Hurri effectiveness in IL2 is concerned. REAL pilots had more training than you (even the little they had) and knew to do things like get the optimum convergence (I think it was 150-200) and waited till they very close before shooting.

Just bear in mind that comparing yourself to the real guys is always a mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by ParrotPatrol:
I looked at the armament for the spitfires and it doesn't look much better. Hell, I had trouble taking on Stukas in that Hurricane. They had tailgunners, sure, but this is rediculous.

Stukas are easy flamers if you aim for the fuel tank I forget where though. either behind the cockpit or the wing root.

Set your gun concentration for 100 meters, and only shoot at 100 meters. Attack the Heinkel head-on or from the side in a swooping curve from above ("high side").

There were many cases of Spits and Hurries unloading everything and not downing a bomber. It was hit and miss but they got alot too...But rifle calibre bullets (303mm)or(.30 cal) were not ideal and the British learned that fast.

German's switched 7.9mm to 13mm (.50 Cal)
British switched .303mm to .50cal
.50 cal works! 20mm works!

Now imagine taking on a b-17!

Well. try the He-111 and do your best to escape 4 AI Hurricane, and you'll change your mind.

I've had a good deal of success with the .303's. Leitmotiv is on the right track. It's all about hitting the target at convergence range. Although, I prefer to set it out a bit farther than 100 meters. I don't like getting that close to the gunners.

quote:

Originally posted by Tempelhof:
Well. try the He-111 and do your best to escape 4 AI Hurricane, and you'll change your mind.

Dude, escaping 4 hurricanes when you are alone is one thing, you don't NEED to escape them when you are in formation. Hell, that flight of bombers tore the AI to bits, it can't just be me.

I wasn't comparing myself to REAL pilots, I was just stating that they were insane to fly Hurricanes.

As for convergence range, I have it set to about 300 meters and I test fire at about 400 and see if I hit, fire as often as I can leading up to 200 meters, get a few hits in if I can at 200-100, and break off at about 100.

In this particular case I sat 250 meters off this guy's 8 o'clock and poured my entire load into his left engine.

Bob STanford Tuck, who scored 29 Victories but crash landed in France in 1942, states that the 8x.303's were fine in the Battle of Britian, but in 1941 and later the Germans started adding more armour plate to their aircraft, particularly the bombers, and they were finding it hard to bring them down with mchine guns.

The pilots were pushing hard for 20mm cannon at this time.

I think its a clip on the World at War series with Laurance Olivier narrating where Tuck talks about it.


Theres also an interview with a German fighter pilot stating how effective the Machine guns were in the Battle Of Britain.

'There were so many bullets flying around that one was bound to hit something vital' were his words.

Obviously we all know that Cannon are far better than machine guns, however at that time in the War aircraft were not as heavily armoured. Also the 20mm cannon available in 1940 (MGFF/Oerlikon/unreliable hispano) were nothing like the 20mm cannons which appeared in 1941/42 (MG151/20 and Reliable Hispano). They were either unreliable or very low muzzle velocity.

ANother thing, I think that the Hurricane Mk1 we have in IL2 is a derated/early export version, and although not vastly more powerful, the RAf Battle Of Britian Hurricane's had least slightly better performance.

Can you old timers remember when the Hurricane was the best dogfighter in Forgotten battles at one time?

It may seem suicidal to us in the present day... but when you are scared for your family, friends, and country (way of life) you will do whatever you can to try and stop the enemy. Even if it seems to be seriously against the odds (or dam near suicidal) you will fight with whatever, or however you can... what would you do...give up?

Unfortunately, as it has been stated before, IL2 doesn't seem to model bullets entering the plane and ricocheting around, somewhat lowering the effectiveness of the round.

I finally managed to bring down a bomber with the round. Unfortunately for some odd reason the crew didn't abandon the plane and continued to fire at me ALL THE WAY DOWN EVEN AS IT SANK SLOWLY INTO THE OCEAN. Now that is what I call dedication.

I'm not implying they were suicidal to FLY, I was implying that they were suicidal to fly HURRICANES.

Where can I find out where the fuel tanks on any given craft are? I imagine if I were to find this out my kill rate would double.

If you are clever in the way you use the Hurricane MkI, as with all the airplanes in this game, you will get results. If you charge into battle and expect to have success, you will not.

Simple equasion actually:

He-111 + Milenium Falcon type cockipt = no crew protection + head on attack = dead crew

quote:

Originally posted by ParrotPatrol:
I'm not implying they were suicidal to FLY, I was implying that they were suicidal to fly HURRICANES.

I would rather have been flying in the Hurricane than in the He-111.

Hence the Kamikaze's in the pacific.
These people were 'indoctrinated' with fear of the enemy and the horrors they were to perform.

Anything is possible in wartime