quote:

Originally posted by DKoor:

quote:

Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

quote:

Originally posted by ElAurens:
Since when is sportsmanship a part of war, virtual or otherwise?

We are not simulating a football match here.

Or have I missed something in the new patch?

Honestly, the enemy is the enemy, landing, taking off, out of ammo, dropping his/her landing gear, flasing nav lights.

WTF, over?

So you are flying a He111 and you fly 20 mins to the target, drop your bombs, score ,many hits and are returning to base. A guy attacks you in a Spitfire and through your skill and cunning you avoid his shots and flame or smoke his plane with the rear gun. He is going down for sure.

Then the pilot of the Spitfire decides 'I am not going to let you get the kill' and rams straight into you, killing you both.

^IS this totally fine because its 'part of war'? IMHO this deserves a kick, as do some other actions.

IMO some rules are needed, in some servers. This is a game not real war. Its meant to be fun remember? All games have rules, otherwise its often just anarchy.

The fun part is a good argument, but the realism is even better.

Does it makes sense that you execute 20-30mins bombing runs just to be rammed by some brainfart commando?
I don't think so...

Because the coin always has two sides... so I wonder just how much brainfart would be amused if the bomber pilot decides to fly CAP over his field and whenever he spawns he rockets/bombs him to oblivion then after rockets/bombs are depleted, land on his field and just strafe him from gunner positions. I guess the guy would be killed 10-20 times before bomber runs out of ammo and ordnance.

Insane fun!

Suggested recourse to a teammate getting rammed perhaps? Hadn't thought of that.
Slow Bomber could pound the base for a while.
Brainfart dies and again and again and again aaannnd again

Coool thought

Tuph

PS your Avatar still scares me

Several air forces practiced ramming during the war, not just the Japanese. Soviet ramming attacks against German bombers was almost common over the Eastern front, especially in the first two years and, particularly, with I-16 pilots. The Germans sometimes resorted to ramming attacks against "viermonts" late in the war. Of course, there are the well-documented cases of Kamikaze attacks against U.S. warships from the Phillipine campaign onwards, as well as ramming attacks against the B-29s - which the Japanese considered their real enemy.

In virtually every case the ramming pilot was green; he knew he had no hope of beating the enemy with tactical skill but could still deal a big blow by ramming, even if he has just one shot at it.

Within the realm of this sim ramming is a viable tactic, if one gets frustrated enough that is! Whether or not it's fair solely depends on the rules of a given MP server, however you're taking your chances anytime you go up on any server, so be prepared for anything! Who knows: one day you might be having a bad mission and will feel compelled to ram that bugger that just refuses to die...

If you are focusing on team play then maybe make the big points team points and give penalties for foul play?
Have at least some players make tracks and use chat words to time-stamp the track for quick find by log later.
If the server can run daemons to record tracks from remote cameras at the bases then so much the better.

Compared to fair rules, fair admins are more essential for the popularity of the server in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by DKoor:

quote:

Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

quote:

Originally posted by ElAurens:
Since when is sportsmanship a part of war, virtual or otherwise?

We are not simulating a football match here.

Or have I missed something in the new patch?

Honestly, the enemy is the enemy, landing, taking off, out of ammo, dropping his/her landing gear, flasing nav lights.

WTF, over?

So you are flying a He111 and you fly 20 mins to the target, drop your bombs, score ,many hits and are returning to base. A guy attacks you in a Spitfire and through your skill and cunning you avoid his shots and flame or smoke his plane with the rear gun. He is going down for sure.

Then the pilot of the Spitfire decides 'I am not going to let you get the kill' and rams straight into you, killing you both.

^IS this totally fine because its 'part of war'? IMHO this deserves a kick, as do some other actions.

IMO some rules are needed, in some servers. This is a game not real war. Its meant to be fun remember? All games have rules, otherwise its often just anarchy.

The fun part is a good argument, but the realism is even better.

Does it makes sense that you execute 20-30mins bombing runs just to be rammed by some brainfart commando?
I don't think so...

Because the coin always has two sides... so I wonder just how much brainfart would be amused if the bomber pilot decides to fly CAP over his field and whenever he spawns he rockets/bombs him to oblivion then after rockets/bombs are depleted, land on his field and just strafe him from gunner positions. I guess the guy would be killed 10-20 times before bomber runs out of ammo and ordnance.

Insane fun!

+10 !!
I was thinking that, have done that only once on a real loony server, where people almost only rammed. They found ramming funny but when their base got pounded and then taken under fire from my gunners, they didn´t find that funny any more. Guess it is only fun when you are not on the receiving end.

Yes fair Admins is a point!
Also the thing with deaths, well a bomber pilot is usually more often intercepted than fighters.
As once discovered you can not escape easily, and usually as soon as people see somewhere there are tracers they swarm in to see what is going on. That means on a full server as a bomber pilot you are a dead duck.

Otherwise what I have read sounds o.k., will have to see if they are followed though.
As "paper" is patient.

Hay Treetop64
You are absolutely right ramming to bring down an opponent was expected by some Military. Not just the Japanese. And I will have to look I may have wrote something to the affect that only Japanese get to ram??

Your second paragraph:

"In virtually every case the ramming pilot was green; he knew he had no hope of beating the enemy with tactical skill but could still deal a big blow by ramming, even if he has just one shot at it."

Really I think explains both sides:

"could still deal a big blow by ramming ,even If he has one shot at it"

I would think that in the Mission perimeter that ramming be acceptable to stop the Heavy,or Bomber, from reaching his intended goal. In a game the mane goal is to win. I also try to think about the bomber pilot that spent the better part of the day in a chair munchen chips and drinking beer juice,I myself like coco, has to go to the bath room for the last fifteen minutes but cant because he is almost at the base and has to land to get all his points for the mission then he gets rammed three quarters into the mission or on final. That would pop my balloon.So with that person in mind I wrote what I felt would be acceptable. And Ramming an Aircraft should be frond upon and a poor expediter of resources and there for poor sportsmanship out side of the combat zone. In my opinion an empty Bomber has already done the damage to the map,his kills have been recorded and is no longer a threat we lost he won. I would shoot out a couple of engines land,TRY!, hit control/F2 and ether flip him some poo egg him on or tell him to keep going and hopefully congratulate him on a good landing and congratulate him on the win. If he toss's to much egg in my face and I am out of bullets I might single him out and try harder to bring him down next time.

M_Gunz

Welcome back
"Have at least some players make tracks and use chat words to time-stamp the track for quick find by log later."

I would recommend it, I don't know how much disk space a long mission would use. All though some of the games would be cool to post. Records for postarity rather then looking for infractions sound more attractive.

jermin122

Welcome

"Compared to fair rules, fair admins are more essential for the popularity of the server in my opinion."

Excellent point but to properly Moderate there has to be guidelines to use in moderating so If I may:

"Fair admins are mandetorie for this to work."

If we look at the UBI moderators each and every one was hand picked and volunteers. And I cant think of one that hasn't but some helium in my laugh. And each one is respected for there own merit's,in what we see and read. When we have a problem we go to them when we have a question we go to them. And because they have guidelines in which to Moderate I will get the same answer from each one. And because I have none you as a player will have to do.

1-A player that is kicked gets to come back under a different user name to explain or defend himself.
2-A player will not be banned with out a vote
The first is designed as a defense
The second because I want to be a member of a team that compliments my goals and abilities.


Tuph

Welcome back RSS-Martin
As "paper" is patient.

Paper is only Paper
A poem is a song


Thanks for your post I am still in your corner.

Tuph

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tuphlandng,

my ill thoughts about ramming seem to come and go.
I know its historically accurate and most people are out to have fun, but i think that given the complexity of the game or lack there of, that ramming should be discouraged.
Historically, a guy rams his plane into a bomber and he's out of the game permanently. In the sim, its back to base with a new plane. Seems a bit unfair to the harder working bomber pilot. They could impose a penalty for ramming, like having to wait two minutes before refly is allowed.

Long enough to be a nuisance, but shorter than the load time...=)



Bill

That would be an idea. Also when a bomber does get lucky and brings a fighter down, and he is still near an enemy base, the fighter always has the chance for a fast revenge. As the bomber is slow. Had that a few times where a fighter had to bail and no time flat he was on my tail again with a new plane.

Welcome back BillSwagger

quote:

Originally posted by BillSwagger:
my ill thoughts about ramming seem to come and go.
I know its historically accurate and most people are out to have fun, but i think that given the complexity of the game or lack there of, that ramming should be discouraged.
Historically, a guy rams his plane into a bomber and he's out of the game permanently. In the sim, its back to base with a new plane. Seems a bit unfair to the harder working bomber pilot. They could impose a penalty for ramming, like having to wait two minutes before refly is allowed.

Long enough to be a nuisance, but shorter than the load time...=)



Bill

"Seems unfair to the harder working Bomber pilot" and that is the bottom line to be a proper server. Ramming for the fighter pilot isn't game over for the Bomber pilot it would be. Do you think that we might have more on-line Bombers if there was less deliberate point stealing ramming?


Tuph

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tuphlandng,

What really gets me is when you are attacked on final. Had that yesterday, everytime I was on final I had always the same fellow shooting like crazy at my plane, he did that with every bomber, and peoples tempers where getting up because of him.

quote:

Originally posted by BillSwagger:
my ill thoughts about ramming seem to come and go.
I know its historically accurate and most people are out to have fun, but i think that given the complexity of the game or lack there of, that ramming should be discouraged.
Historically, a guy rams his plane into a bomber and he's out of the game permanently. In the sim, its back to base with a new plane. Seems a bit unfair to the harder working bomber pilot. They could impose a penalty for ramming, like having to wait two minutes before refly is allowed.

Long enough to be a nuisance, but shorter than the load time...=)



Bill

This problem can be easily solved. Some server management applications have a function called Deathkick, which will ban the player who has died whatever times for whatever length of time.

This will make the players think twice before they deliberately ram into some others.

Give the bombers major points for hitting the target and minor ones (enough to make it worth trying) for landing.
Just a shame they can't air-exit along one map edge, hard to camp an entire map edge.

quote:

Originally posted by RSS-Martin:

quote:

Originally posted by DKoor:

quote:

Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

quote:

Originally posted by ElAurens:
Since when is sportsmanship a part of war, virtual or otherwise?

We are not simulating a football match here.

Or have I missed something in the new patch?

Honestly, the enemy is the enemy, landing, taking off, out of ammo, dropping his/her landing gear, flasing nav lights.

WTF, over?

So you are flying a He111 and you fly 20 mins to the target, drop your bombs, score ,many hits and are returning to base. A guy attacks you in a Spitfire and through your skill and cunning you avoid his shots and flame or smoke his plane with the rear gun. He is going down for sure.

Then the pilot of the Spitfire decides 'I am not going to let you get the kill' and rams straight into you, killing you both.

^IS this totally fine because its 'part of war'? IMHO this deserves a kick, as do some other actions.

IMO some rules are needed, in some servers. This is a game not real war. Its meant to be fun remember? All games have rules, otherwise its often just anarchy.

The fun part is a good argument, but the realism is even better.

Does it makes sense that you execute 20-30mins bombing runs just to be rammed by some brainfart commando?
I don't think so...

Because the coin always has two sides... so I wonder just how much brainfart would be amused if the bomber pilot decides to fly CAP over his field and whenever he spawns he rockets/bombs him to oblivion then after rockets/bombs are depleted, land on his field and just strafe him from gunner positions. I guess the guy would be killed 10-20 times before bomber runs out of ammo and ordnance.

Insane fun!

+10 !!
I was thinking that, have done that only once on a real loony server, where people almost only rammed. They found ramming funny but when their base got pounded and then taken under fire from my gunners, they didn´t find that funny any more. Guess it is only fun when you are not on the receiving end.

Yes fair Admins is a point!
Also the thing with deaths, well a bomber pilot is usually more often intercepted than fighters.
As once discovered you can not escape easily, and usually as soon as people see somewhere there are tracers they swarm in to see what is going on. That means on a full server as a bomber pilot you are a dead duck.

Otherwise what I have read sounds o.k., will have to see if they are followed though.
As "paper" is patient.

Hehehehe .

Long time ago when there was VFC server (which sported mainly Eastern Front) alive and ticking I flew one funny sortie... mate and I crewed IL-2 series 1's (those with 16 rockets or so) and two of us, escorted by 2 VVS P-40's headed for German base we flew at tree top while they flew high up. After we showed up AA opened, but after only one pass (I think) everything was silent (P-40's had bombs).
We proceed to do what seemed to be one of the biggest ownages I ever saw online...

Time after time whenever one blue tried to take off he chewed teh RS-82 or ShVAK... to add to confusion server was realistic with limited friendly icons only... after some time we decided to retreat because they all switched the base.

I mean bomber pilots can be mean and vengeful .

quote:

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Give the bombers major points for hitting the target and minor ones (enough to make it worth trying) for landing.
Just a shame they can't air-exit along one map edge, hard to camp an entire map edge.

Yeah, especially true on some small maps where you can almost smell the most distant enemy base.

quote:

Originally posted by jermin122:

quote:

Originally posted by BillSwagger:
my ill thoughts about ramming seem to come and go.
I know its historically accurate and most people are out to have fun, but i think that given the complexity of the game or lack there of, that ramming should be discouraged.
Historically, a guy rams his plane into a bomber and he's out of the game permanently. In the sim, its back to base with a new plane. Seems a bit unfair to the harder working bomber pilot. They could impose a penalty for ramming, like having to wait two minutes before refly is allowed.

Long enough to be a nuisance, but shorter than the load time...=)



Bill

This problem can be easily solved. Some server management applications have a function called Deathkick, which will ban the player who has died whatever times for whatever length of time.

This will make the players think twice before they deliberately ram into some others.

On the by.stormovik server there is a 10min death kick if you are killed twice in a row. No rammers there!

quote:

Originally posted by DKoor:

quote:

Originally posted by RSS-Martin:

quote:

Originally posted by DKoor:

quote:

Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

quote:

Originally posted by ElAurens:
Since when is sportsmanship a part of war, virtual or otherwise?

We are not simulating a football match here.

Or have I missed something in the new patch?

Honestly, the enemy is the enemy, landing, taking off, out of ammo, dropping his/her landing gear, flasing nav lights.

WTF, over?

So you are flying a He111 and you fly 20 mins to the target, drop your bombs, score ,many hits and are returning to base. A guy attacks you in a Spitfire and through your skill and cunning you avoid his shots and flame or smoke his plane with the rear gun. He is going down for sure.

Then the pilot of the Spitfire decides 'I am not going to let you get the kill' and rams straight into you, killing you both.

^IS this totally fine because its 'part of war'? IMHO this deserves a kick, as do some other actions.

IMO some rules are needed, in some servers. This is a game not real war. Its meant to be fun remember? All games have rules, otherwise its often just anarchy.

The fun part is a good argument, but the realism is even better.

Does it makes sense that you execute 20-30mins bombing runs just to be rammed by some brainfart commando?
I don't think so...

Because the coin always has two sides... so I wonder just how much brainfart would be amused if the bomber pilot decides to fly CAP over his field and whenever he spawns he rockets/bombs him to oblivion then after rockets/bombs are depleted, land on his field and just strafe him from gunner positions. I guess the guy would be killed 10-20 times before bomber runs out of ammo and ordnance.

Insane fun!

+10 !!
I was thinking that, have done that only once on a real loony server, where people almost only rammed. They found ramming funny but when their base got pounded and then taken under fire from my gunners, they didn´t find that funny any more. Guess it is only fun when you are not on the receiving end.

Yes fair Admins is a point!
Also the thing with deaths, well a bomber pilot is usually more often intercepted than fighters.
As once discovered you can not escape easily, and usually as soon as people see somewhere there are tracers they swarm in to see what is going on. That means on a full server as a bomber pilot you are a dead duck.

Otherwise what I have read sounds o.k., will have to see if they are followed though.
As "paper" is patient.

Hehehehe .

Long time ago when there was VFC server (which sported mainly Eastern Front) alive and ticking I flew one funny sortie... mate and I crewed IL-2 series 1's (those with 16 rockets or so) and two of us, escorted by 2 VVS P-40's headed for German base we flew at tree top while they flew high up. After we showed up AA opened, but after only one pass (I think) everything was silent (P-40's had bombs).
We proceed to do what seemed to be one of the biggest ownages I ever saw online...

Time after time whenever one blue tried to take off he chewed teh RS-82 or ShVAK... to add to confusion server was realistic with limited friendly icons only... after some time we decided to retreat because they all switched the base.

I mean bomber pilots can be mean and vengeful .

Well what I did was after a few fighters got me on the happy side, I first wumped their base with 2 SC2000 bombs then did low passes with my He111 H6 using the front gunner position and raked anything that was still there, then landed beside where the enemy spawned and did them in with the waist gunner und top gunner positions.....funny thing the fighter jocks where not happy any more. I just couldn´t understand it.

And so the server descends into anarchy and no fun for anyone.

But hey... they just asked for it .

Oh it takes a while until I want vengance, but when I do, then it is no more Mr. Nice-Guy.
Now a days I take a close look what kind of folks are on a server, if I see it is the "Fun-squad" looking to get the bombers heated up I am gone.
As there are more amusing things in life then being annoyed by a bunch of silly kids that take pride in ruining everything.