quote:

Originally posted by Tuphlandng:

quote:

Originally posted by na85:


And re: bomber ramming: If it comes down to me ramming this bomber or him hitting the targets to win the map, you can be damn sure I'll ram him every time.

I have to agree with the ramming to prevent the bomber from reaching his target. I see little point in ramming after the bomb load has been released

Tuph

Depends on how historic you want to be. If they just bombed your Mother-In-Law you might want to wave as they go by?

I will never understand how "killing" a plane/pilot on the ground is "bad" with a machine gun, but "good" with a bomb or rocket?

It's so much easier with bombs and rockets. All you have to do is get close.

Some people have very strange ideas.

Do you think that if a server did not use the word historic that people would get less upset over rules?

Well put it so if a plane is rammed accidently that is not nice but with a "sorry" accepted.
In most times the rammer has desprately tried to shoot the plane down but his skills has not allowed a final hit. I can only speak for what I have seen in the last years and most rammings where on final after the bomb run was already over. That was also the case in that screen shot, target was destroyed squadron was about 5min from home base desending for a landing approach when that "hero" slammed into the lead plane.
The squadron was on a open public server to maybe find new members, but after two such rammings the squadron and also a bunch of good friends who acted as fighter escorts left the server, that was due to one cuckkoo 21 pilots gone. No chance of the remaining pilots of having any success.
I usually keep tracks of every flight just in case something like that happens, so that one has proof.
If a server gets a reputation that a lot of pilots hang around there that take out any plane on any side just for the fun of it, is then avoided.
Otherwise yes many squadrons go on servers that are only accessable via password so that things like that do not happen.
It usually only takes one or two to ruin a game if they are not stopped.

But these are the kind of people even if there are rules, will ignore them. You see them every where now and then, they fly with delibrately wrong markings, use the chatbar for the rudest of language, and do their most to disturb the game flow, either by ramming any plane. Sitting in the spawn in a plane with either rear gunner or bomber and shooting at the spawning planes beside them, that is their definition of fun.

Howdy All,

M_gunz..it took awhile, but I am catching your message...

This seems to be an effort of "self flagellation"...I don't believe for one moment that anyone takes part in this game with the thought in mind to educate another about Respect,Integrity and Social Graces...I certainly don't. I won't.

To complain about others behavior in the game is like complaining about getting the "clap" at the cathouse...the cure is Don't Go there...

The world is full of self centered selfish folks who cannot be educated, ruled or guidlined...and that is why we have jails and grave yards....and servers have kicks/bans...

That is really all that can be said Tuphlandng..With no disrespect to you or your purpose...

Pudfark/NGW-Sancho

It would be great to have guidelines, but I see bigger issues with bickering and usually what comes out of rules not being properly enforced. Maybe some rules are difficult to enforce.

Long before my Il2 days i played another sim online where the rules were pretty straight forward and difficult to cheat them because they were automated into the game, which meant you got warned and then kicked. If it was a real extreme case, like someone trying to disrupt the game, or impose his will on others then the admin could ban them.


Often people formed their own squads which also meant having their own code of ethics. A lot of this was to keep people from sharing tactics with other squads, some of the rules covered similar things like chute shooting.

The chats often rang out about ramming. That will never change, but you couldn't shoot your team mate which was nice, in that it was not an issue for people to argue about. The more popular room in this sim had it set that way, but they also had a historical room/server where you could shoot teammates. The settings were also more difficult. Very similar to what you might call full real, however the flight model itself was much more primitive than Il2.
The great thing was kill stealing was non-existent. The points/kill went to the player who did the most damage. Real simple too, and i don't remember it being as big an issue as it is on some servers with this game. It would be great to have a patch for this, but i'm also finding some servers have classier players where its really not about that at all.

It really wasn't about scoring kills cause there was also more depth in that sim, meaning that it wasn't just about flying to fight or complete one mission, although some people did. You also set up positions to protect against bombers, or form an attack. This would trigger tanks, which then could capture a base. It was a pretty neat game, but it became too archaic for me, as the flight models were purposely butcherd to even out the sides. Their historical rooms offer realistic flight models, but those rooms never quite filled up the same.
So i'm already in the habit of flying, fighting, and returning to base. Sometimes planesets were limited which meant if i could save a plane i would.

I think i'll stop there cause i'm going off topic.

Anyway, it would be good to see people focus more on the mission and not just scoring kills. I just don't see that happening until more depth is added to the sim.



Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Pudfark:
This seems to be an effort of "self flagellation"...I don't believe for one moment that anyone takes part in this game with the thought in mind to educate another about Respect,Integrity and Social Graces...I certainly don't. I won't.

You just haven't met the right groups maybe or maybe it's that part about educating which in practice is more like
sorting out the ones you like through common interests and some time together. No force is necessary when the pushing
is done by the ones you don't want; the team killers, kill stealers, vulchers, air-quakers provide the motivation to
get the ones who want decent play to join together and find or make solutions.

Folks for many years have tried to legislate conduct and behavior in this Sim....as long as the server is "open" to the public, these types of problems will re-occur...and they do, often.

More rules/guidlines and or a more detailed explanation of them will not deter the majority of the miscreants...my point being, ten years later and we still have the same complaints...and no resolution found...To your credit, I applaud the effort you are trying to make....History does repeat itself, I have read and participated in many forums containing this subject matter....none, no where, have they ever been successful in a public venue...private games/coops are the only sure way...I play both and don't complain about the public...as I stated before, bullets and bans are the only thing that work there...nothing else ever has...

I know you don't want to hear any of the above and it is tendered with sincerity for you and the others that have posted here...Every Public Server that I know of, that has Admins, kicks and bans.

Respectfully,

Pudfark...

Tuph,

Okie Dokie..if you insist

Take a trip here Mag-13.com

I am not affiliated with these fine folks...I do fly on their server and much enjoy their company and suggestions for fair play....I believe that you will also....I very much agree with their outlook...and especially the way that they recruit....Read their Forums and Rules

Su Amigo,

Pudfark.....

Uno mas helpful suggestion:

If the object is to educate or cull out the "Coyotes"...TeamSpeak is the best and most efficient way that I know of... IMHO it should be mandatory. It allows the instant address of issues and promotes an immediate course of action or remedy for the issue at hand...

Su Amigo,

Pudfark/NGW-Sancho

Ramming... i'll happily stay on course if i'm caught alone by a faster plane with energy advantage and he has nothing better to do than giving me the chance to point my guns-end at his guns-end. His turn to evade if he want's to get me on second pass. I like realistic settings in the simulation for the amazing gameplay value, but i see little point in futile attempts of social simulation of air warfare.

Ramming bombers is a different matter of course. But i'd grant everybody the assumption that it happened due to incompetence and not due to malevolence. I've seen enough fair and very capable 109 pilots to be totally unable to cope with the awesome lack of speed of a TB-3, for example.

The fun part is that assuming lack of skill would be the most useful thing to do anyway, even in the rare case that someone is really only out to annoy. If you offer lessons on how to not accidentally ram it will actually hurt them more than kicking them off the server. Griefers want to feel like Sith-Lords, not like a Padawan.

I had nick names for different pilots.

Ronald "The Rammer" Rambert:
He is out to get you anyway he can. He will point his guns at you and never think to swever to avoid a collision. Most of the time its your fault, because Ranald is one the better pilots in the game. This means that if you collide, then you didn't swerve soon enough.


Jack Warpington and Herbert Jumpsome:
Watch out for this duo, they are usually hard to see, and some say they might even be the same person. They have a real nack for sliding out of the way just as you're lining up for a kill shot. Some call it science, i call it weird.

Buddy Buttinski:
Your beloved teammate, Buddy, is just trying to help. Unfortunately, he has a bad habit of flying where your guns are already pointed.
"Thanks Buddy"



Bill

Here is a resent PM that I received

"I think there is only so much to be had on the Il2 platform as it stands. I really think if people had more to do then there wouldn't be any problems with kills and points. The object should be to win the match with the least amount of losses.
I think too many folks get caught up in the dog fights, and i really can't blame them because most missions are fairly simple. It also has alot to do with some of the plane sets, but a bigger factor is overall organization between teammates.
I stopped thinking about it so hard, and really just enjoy playing it for what it is."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tuphlandng,

Well, I sometimes play for fun, not for winning.

Can the server software or daemon determine if someone did ram?

quote:

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Can the server software or daemon determine if someone did ram?

And there in lies the dilemma of Ramming.

Sure record the game from start to finish revue looking for offenses.

Sounds time consuming not to mention hard drive resources. Server would have to be shut down to do the revue.

I asked one Bomber pilot how long for a a decent mission, he said at least 120 Min. That is a lot of hard drive space.

I could use some help with this.
Recording a game takes up hard drive space.
Is there a program that can be used to transfer the Game Recording to a CD or DVD after it has been recorded on the hard drive?


Tuph

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tuphlandng,

Just fly over 2000m.
Rammers usually don't go above 1000m.
Problem solved.

quote:

Originally posted by Pudfark:
Tuph,

Okie Dokie..if you insist

Take a trip here Mag-13.com

I checked it out seems that it is a Squadren forum

Thank you gave me an idea for a format to present the guidelines.
Lengthy but I think dueable Let me know if your intrested

Tuph

PS DKoor your Avatar scares me

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tuphlandng,

quote:

Originally posted by DKoor:
Just fly over 2000m.
Rammers usually don't go above 1000m.
Problem solved.

Bomb runs that low are crazy. Unless you have torpedos.
Normal flight level is around 5000m or higher.

I can live with the possibiltiy of rammings, but to think of masses of US Kamikazies just does not fit. Stuff like that you then think where is "Dark Helmet" and the ludicrous speed.
May the Schwartz be with you!

Hehe I was kinda exaggerating to make a point .
Many of these guys don't take the game seriously in any aspect, so logically if they expanded all ammo they will ram you just for the fun.
They are looking for quick fun probably not interested in historical aspect all together.