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I've found my self having more luck while using aircraft that house medium caliber machine guns, rather then when using heavy caliber. The 7mm guns tend to stay on a flat trajectory for a longer period of time, where as 12.7mm tend to drop towards the earth even sooner, just as in real life situations.
my question is, in order to be more successful when firing large caliber guns such as the 12.7mm or 50.cal, how should my approach be different, and what seems to be the best convergence angle when you find you're self 175 meters behind you're target most of the time. I usually have my convergence set to 220 meters for cannon, and 200 meters for machine guns. In the majority of dogfights, with these convergence angles, i find my my rounds almost always hitting mid wing to fuselage. Rounds hardly ever fly past that hit box, so i figure I've found a good setup. So if anyone can give me insight as to how you fight depending on the caliber of gun used, whether using an aircraft with medium or heavy caliber machine guns. |
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Well, I like to attack my prey from the side, but for that caliber Id attack the wings or the engine or the pilot area.
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I'd say make the attack the same as with the .30's. The ballistics shouldn't matter between the two as neither have the sheer brute power of a cannon so its always best to get in close. Wings, engine or pilot are your best bet, just like SILVERFISH1992 said, as long as the a/c is disabled you're good.
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I do not know how much bullet drop differs from one caliber to another in the world of Il2, but the 50 cal BMG has a flatter trajectory than the 30-06 or similar caliber of the time period, and that is the same in real ballistics.
I cannot remember actual numbers any more, but the grazing fire of a 50 cal is greater than a 30 cal weapon. That is to say that placing the weapon 1 meter above the ground and shooting level, the grazing fire is the distance at which the bullets will strike the ground due to bullet drop. That was an important thing to know in my line of work. Since it has been a while I have forgotten actual numbers. -PC Performance Aficionado and proud forum member since 2001 |
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Then of course there are the 0.50 cal Breda's.
_________________________________ Some random "stuff" : WTE (Australasian IL2 Squadron): http://www.wte-anga.com/ RAF 3 Sdn '38 and 72 Sqdn: http://tinyurl.com/3RAF1938 http://tinyurl.com/72sqdn N5519 Charity 1939: http://tinyurl.com/n5519 |
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which is Italian junk guns
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Also ... the ho-103 ...a Browning ripoff with Breda style ammunition. Just pointing out that despite appearances on this forum, there are 0.50 cal weapons out there that are not American  _________________________________ Some random "stuff" : WTE (Australasian IL2 Squadron): http://www.wte-anga.com/ RAF 3 Sdn '38 and 72 Sqdn: http://tinyurl.com/3RAF1938 http://tinyurl.com/72sqdn N5519 Charity 1939: http://tinyurl.com/n5519 |
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+1 Bullets drop at the same rate with time though usually not with distance. They drop as fast as if you dropped one from your hand, that's basic exterior ballistics not counting shells fired over extreme range where the nose points above the trajectory. A 50 cal bullet will hold its speed better than a 30 cal just due to higher mass per frontal area, as IRL. That's why they have much longer range. However when looking through a gunsight and judging bullet rise and drop by relation to the pipper a lot of other factors come into play and by appearances you may see things differently. Just don't be fooled by appearances, set a plane and a camera on the ground with FMB far enough off to catch the tracers paths and make a screenie then change the plane, etc, don't play games (one plane turned away from the camera, farther away, etc) and see what you see from the side. It won't be absolute proof but trends should show. When people take a plane out to see what it can do they really find what they can do with it. |
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Moderator: Maddox and General forums |
The .30 calibres will have an initially flatter trajectory than the .50 calibre as they have a higher muzzle velocity, but being lighter they slow down more quickly. At longer ranges the .50 should have a significant ballistic advantage. Which is basically what Choctaw111 said.
--------------------- Regards, Tully Joysticks & IL2/FB/PF | IL2Sticks Utility IL2JoyControl Utility | See How It Flies |
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I hate 30 cals...However the early P-40's with 2 x 50 cals and 4 x 30 cals is pretty effective.
----------------- Farewell to freedom in the Adriatic and to the days of wild abandon. Check out my BRAND NEW campaign, "The Pirate Menace" Also check out my old Air Pirates campaigns! Air Pirates Part One Air Pirates Part Two |
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'38 hurri with .303s against 4 X he111 is one of my favorite quick missions _________________________________ Some random "stuff" : WTE (Australasian IL2 Squadron): http://www.wte-anga.com/ RAF 3 Sdn '38 and 72 Sqdn: http://tinyurl.com/3RAF1938 http://tinyurl.com/72sqdn N5519 Charity 1939: http://tinyurl.com/n5519 |
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I have no luck at this point doing any real damage beyond 200+ meters or so. I guess it depends on a few things though.
The flatter trajectory at short range, and the higher rate of fire seem to work in my favor as a new player. I tend to set the Machine guns Convergence to 200 meters, and the cannon at 220, which seems to give a nice wide field of fire. But what do i know, i have no experience with air combat in real life or Sims really. The closest thing as far as games is BF1942 haha, and maybe pacific storm, but heck, pacific storm allies has not even half decent air combat. |
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Keep trying, that's the best you can do. I have only little difficulty hitting a fighter sized target from 700 meters away with the .50 Browning. The ballistics of that gun are better than the .30 guns, but not by much.
Despite of being able to land a hit from 700 meters away, I usually fire from less than 200. Because at that close distance, the effects are lethal. The P-40 is a good plane to gain experience with .50s in. Go fight a few 109E4B, it's not easy but not too hard either. |
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Tsk tsk ...Bredas IRL were so vastly superior to Brownings that Italian pilots went to combat with two guns only, whereas US pilots at a point required up to 8 Brownings to feel safe ...  Ins |
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Comparison of retained velocity versus range:
Bullet_____.30 AP M2___.50 AP M2 (US MG's) RANGE (yds) 000----------2775--------2825 ft/sec 200----------2325--------2600 400----------1925--------2350 600----------1550--------2125 800----------1250--------1900 I don't know which nationality of MG's the original poster was referring to, but as far as US MG's are concerned the 50cal had a flatter trajactory than its 30cal stablemate at all points down-range. BLUTARSKI |
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I actually don't think it's only Italian HMGs that suck. Why do we see no complaints about the power of Mg131? Because it's always only a sidekick to cannons, never a primary weapon. I really don't believe people simply "forget" about the added punch of two Mg131s when they pick a G2 over G6. In this regard I consider UBS the absolute winner with M2/3 .50cals on second place and all other HMGs falling far behind, BREDAs and Mg131s being utterly anemic. I remember about reading some Russian pilot's notes, in which he compares the G6 to Yak-9. He viewed armament as equal - both having a 20mm cannon firing through the spinner, while he considered a single UBS a Yak had roughly equal to two Mg131s on a G6. No one in sane mind ever turns when he has any other option. ~ DKoor |
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I remember reading UBS 12.7 mm had a longer barrel , higher muzzle velocity than MG131 , but that it was as heavier as an MG/FF Oerlikon 20mm gun
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Consider yourself lucky. You got here after the many interminable threads on exactly that subject and "Russian Lazers". There was even a screenie hoax that got exposed. When people take a plane out to see what it can do they really find what they can do with it. |
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I was really referring to American used .30 and .50 Ammunition.
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I just figured that maybe the .30 had less bullet drop at altitude, several hundred meters away, seeing as the smaller round has less mass.
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