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Sorry, but FFB will NOT be a feature of the Saitek X65. In fact it's even worse: THE JOYSTICK DOES NOT MOVE! Here's a snippet from the product link http://www.saitekusa.com/prod/x65f.htm
 S! |
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I knew it, I bloody knew it, Saitek would make an excellent throttle unit but royally F*ck up the stick, they did it with the X-45 and the X-52.
Lockheed tried using a stick that doesn't move in their early F-16s but pilots found it so difficult to get used to that they altered them so they moved, I'm now curious which aircraft use this type of control column. P.S. Force Sensing Technology? Do they think that they are friggin Obi Wan Kenobi?, do you get a free lightsaber with this soggy bag of dog turd?   Long as I remember The rain been comin' down. Clouds of myst'ry pourin' Confusion on the ground. Good men through the ages, Tryin' to find the sun; And I wonder, Still I wonder, Who'll stop the rain. |
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Face meets palm moment there I think!
What on earth are they thiking? and even more - who are they marketing it at as it certainly doesnt seem to appeal to the IL2 or FSX enthusiast in me! V Oberstleutnant Valantine Zimmermann II./JG53 Kommandeur  Co-op Squadron Recruiting!!! Recruiting BF109 pilots throughout the globe! Come see us at: http://www.iijg53.com |
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I think I'll be checking out the Logitech HOTAS for my next setup. Too bad. Saitek would be good if they take care of a few quality issues and not make design decisions like a stick that doesn't frakin' move!
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Personally, I think the pressure sensor on a non movable stick is a great idea with much fewer parts to wear out.
Of course it is not reminiscent of a WW2 era stick, but I don't think that Saitek was ever aiming at the WW2 flight sim market, just to make something "cool" that would appeal to their target consumers. -PC Performance Aficionado and proud forum member since 2001 |
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It's also called scale. An impressive, and not yet fully tamed technology.   No one in sane mind ever turns when he has any other option. ~ DKoor |
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Is this an accurate statement as to what is found on modern fighter jets? If so, then it truly seems as if they are making a jet HOTAS only, which is fine, but totally inappropriate for a WWII fighter sim. System Specs: Dell Dimension E521 AMD64x2 5000+ 4G DDR2 RAM ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3 250GB SATA HD |
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*Sigh* "Epic failure" from Saitek, its almost unbelievable. I at least expected FFB.
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There are these force sensing things on some laptops in addition to the touch pad. It is a little nub in the center of the keyboard. It is like a mini-joystick, but it always puzzled me as to why it never moved despite the pressure I put on it. It is more precise and easy to use than the touch pad in some instances. I think it can be given a chance.
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IL2 Moderator  |
Looks like Ill be keeping my MSFFB2 and maybe getting an X-52 to mod up..
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Soo bad.. This is what you get when X360 kids get to design
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Man... that is SO stupid.
Saitek drops the ball yet again  ---------------- Flying online as nate85 "I can buy a scalpel, that doesn't make me a surgeon." - M_Gunz |
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or a stick that weighs 8 ounces like the EVO so you need one hand to hold it down, another work the stick.... When you get to Hell, tell 'em HawgDog sent you!  |
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JG53_Valantine:
Face meets palm moment there I think! -------------------------- Palm meets something else I think, they should stick to playing with their joystick. . LStarosta: -That was the most entertaining thing I've read all day, granted I just woke up. Ernst_Rohr: - Since everyone whines equally, I think Oleg must have gotten it pretty close to right. Remember, all your equipment including your weapon was made by the lowest bidder. http://wte-anga.com http://www.uploadit.org/gallery/12741 http://server6.uploadit.org/files/Ibissix-schmile.JPG  Join us or oppose us, either way MAKE MY DAY http://wte-anga.com |
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Could be a bit akward at first but I´m a quite curious about it.
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Comment from SimHQ
[quote=NamelessPFG]It depends on what kind of games/sims you prefer. Falcon 4.0 and space combat titles? It would take some getting used to, but you wouldn't want to use anything else after the adjustment period. Prop jobs and helicopters? You'd probably hate it as your hand cramps up and you have an extremely difficult time trying to maintain a steady stick, so to speak. [/quote] |
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Moderator: Maddox and General forums |
I think hoax is a bit strong. The FFB rumours were the result of a poor internet translation of a pre-announcement leak from a Chinese language source. As far as I know Saitek never claimed it was going to be FFB.
As for actually buying it, I'd like to give it a try. It may be better than one would at first think or it may royally suck. --------------------- Regards, Tully Joysticks & IL2/FB/PF | IL2Sticks Utility IL2JoyControl Utility | See How It Flies |
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I thought the term hoax added a touch of irony to the letdown but it really wasn't a hoax at all beyond the misguided and dashed expectations for a potentially great product (so in that way we were the perpetrators, not Saitek). It's probably a fine product for what it is, but for a prophead like me it's useless. I can't imagine doing WWI (or WWII) dogfights with a stick like that and not developing carpel tunnel, but that's me. For FSX it'd be interesting to give it a try (LOMAC never caught my fancy). At my job I've used a force sensing device for navigating 3D graphic model called a 'space ball'. It gave you 6dof navigation by pushing and twisting a fixed ball; it worked perfectly for what we needed it for. |
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Actually a load cell stick (something which has prviously only been available in the shape of very expensive cougar mods) is a much more impressive step from Saitek than another FFB stick would have been.
Their own wording "In a world first for a manufactured simulation controller" is a nice subtle hats off of acknowledgement to the cougar modders. The fact that load cell technology benefits a lot from mass production will probably help make it an enormous success. I wonder if they will keep their "moving" HOTAS line? The availability of the X52 in light of the X52Pro should allow some optimism. @Tully: robotic translation of chinese rumors was not the only reason for this misunderstanding/surprise, iirc Saitek themselves used the word "force" in their ominous pre-preannouncement website. |
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#1 There is no such thing as a zero displacement controller. Stuff bends when you load it. Some stuff bends less than other stuff, but everything will bend.
My FSSB R2 Cougar deflects ~ 2 mm at full deflection. #2 Since IL2 actually uses a force limited model, it is actually much more logical to use a force based input system than a displacement based input system. #3 Force based input systems feel perfectly natural to fly; they are not well suited to dual control pilot training applications because you don't have any indication of the inputs being made by the other guy, as you would do with a simple mechanical displacement based system. I believe this has also been a problem for Airbus sidesticks under certain circumstances. |
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