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Heh. I can only say "lol" at the thought of the P-51 being superior to the P-38. It seems she didnt read all documents in question.
PROOF DEPARTMENT ARMY AIR FORCES PROVING GROUND COMMAND EGLIN FIELD, FLORIDA FINAL REPORT ON TACTICAL SUITABILITY OF THE P-38F TYPE AIRPLANE 6 March 1943 3. Conclusions: It is concluded that: a. For a general combination of climb, range, endurance, speed, altitude and fire power, the P-38F is the best production line fighter tested to date at this station. Types tested include the P-47, P-51, P-40F and P-39D-1.  |
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Interesting stuff here...
  The Wu is here to bring you Shaolin's finest... |
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Is this actually a doctorate thesis? Seems more like an senior undergraduate level essay. I wrote a number of these (on different subjects) myself...
Not saying its bad...just doesn't seem like a doctorate thesis (those are much more indepth in my experience). |
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76 trombones led the big parade....
When people take a plane out to see what it can do they really find what they can do with it. |
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Salute Gibbage The first production P-51B did not fly until May of 1943. The report you point to is March of '43. There was no production model P-51B to use in this USAAF comparison. The P-51 which was tested was a P-51A, which obviously was not suitable for longrange escort at high alt. |
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This is a USN study, for aircraft designed to operate under 25,000 ft. Second, if you look at the study, you will notice the F4U used here is rated at higher than standard boost, and has been tweaked to improve speed. The P-51B is loaded to max, ie. with the fuselage tank full, hence its poor handling. Plus it is not running at the boost normally used by P-51B's at this time. Certainly the F4U is preferably for carrier operations though. But the paper I linked was not about why the P-51 was a wonderful carrier fighter...  |
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Brilliant knuckle dragger response...  I'm sure you get good ratings from all the women you deal with. Maybe you'd like to provide some actual factual criticism of her conclusions? By the way, the woman is a Lt Colonel in the AirForce, and has won awards such as the Corby Award from Notre Dame, for "...graduates with distinguished military service", has a resume which includes command of an Air Refueling Squadron, and is now a Staff Officer at US European Command. And no, I don't think she flys P-51's... nobody in the AirForce does. This message has been edited. Last edited by: T_O_A_D, |
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Two Corsairs were used in this evaluation, one at 60" MAP and one at 65" MAP. The P-51 was run at 67" MAP at loadings of 9,423 and 9,100 lbs. The F4U's were tested at 12,162 lbs. against both P-51 loading conditions. All planes in the evaluation had slight cosmetic tweaking.
"...superior fighter for Naval or Marine employment, either land or ship-based..." The Wu is here to bring you Shaolin's finest... |
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just curious ... how many people regularly fly the P51B variant ..
also ... if the P51B was SO superior, why did they bother making the P51D ????? _________________________________ Some random "stuff" : WTE (Australasian IL2 Squadron): http://www.wte-anga.com/ RAF 3 Sdn '38 and 72 Sqdn: http://tinyurl.com/3RAF1938 http://tinyurl.com/72sqdn N5519 Charity 1939: http://tinyurl.com/n5519 |
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You forgot the last phrase:
The F4U would have been completely inadequate for the escort role in Europe or Asia. Which is why the Mustang was used to escort the B-29's and B-24's in Asia. Great carrier plane though. Thanks for confirming the P-51B was using 67 inches MAP. |
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Quiet a few... in a lot of respects it's better/same as the 'D'
Corrected myself... got my books out  6x 0.5s (which incidently won the war  ) and a cleaner airframe. Incidently the B is the same as the C - they just came from differebt factories  This seemd to be a natural progression ending later in the lightweight F and G prototypes and H production variant (555 by VJ day). there are some X-versions mentioned but these did not go into production  Forget the Garlic, Beetroot and Hardtack - Just gimme Gunz-n-Drugz |
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The B/C wasn't superior all the way to Berlin and back? When people take a plane out to see what it can do they really find what they can do with it. |
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I didn't forget it; it was just unnecessary to rebut your statement.
Corsairs escorted Army bombers throughout the Solomons campaign.
By the time the Mustang showed up in the PTO, F4U, F6F, P-38, P-40, and P-47 had done all the heavy lifting. P-51 escorts would rarely see a Japanese interceptor.
Better than the P-51, not as good as F6F.
Is that not the standard Combat Power rating? The Wu is here to bring you Shaolin's finest... |
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I always preferred the Corsair over the Mustang. It's one hell of a plane.
 To me the Mustang is a series of compromises that work pretty well over all.You have both on a flight line and guess which I will run to first?  |
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IL2-Moderator |
Fish On
 I know plenty about the girls, Got a wife and raised two daughters. Besides I hardly ever troll. I had to bring out some of the magic bait. Getting kind of hungry  Besides, unless it was written by someone Guy or Girl (Patty Wagstaff I'd sooner take her writings on it) directly involved in the direct testing of these air craft, it's only knowledge attained from others, and as we all know second hand third hand , just muddies the waters.
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Corsairs in the Solomons enjoyed a much greater performance edge over the Japanese than the P-51 enjoyed over their German counterparts, and those Army bombers generally flew at lower altitudes. Mustang was desperately desired by GEN Kenney in the Southwest Pacific, but it was more important to win in Europe first. When it did show up, P-40 & P-47 pilots were dancing for joy. It did get to China in mid '44, and escorted the long ranged bombers operating out of there. There were MANY Mustang aces with the 14th AF, and they enjoyed some significant success against Japanese interceptors. While the Corsair was a great fighter, I doubt that the -1 &-1A versions were really comparable with the P-51B/C Mustang; it was however, a NAVY fighter, and the Mustang was an ARMY fighter. Naval aviators comparing their Corsairs and Hellcats against a FW 190A were also convinced that they'ed rather have their (not as fast, slower climbing, lighter armed, heavier pilot workload) NAVY fighters than the evil NAZI fighter in combat. All accounts I've read indicate that when Navy fighters bounced Army P-47s, they would win as long as they kept the fight under 20,000 ft. Once above that line, the Thunderbolt dominated, and the Mustang was considered better than the T-bolt under 25K and pretty close up to 30K. While I believe that WWII Naval aviators were generally better than their Army counterparts, I'd take a good Mustang driver over a good Corsair driver at least until the Corsair driver gets a -4. Until the F4U-4 arrived, the Corsair was an immature design that had yet to match its potential. The Merlin Mustang was ready for primetime the moment it hit the stage. cheers horseback "Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944 |
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Man I love this thread.
 The American planes going against eachother.   TIR 4 Pro -$25 Off- From Forgotten Assassins "Never have I seen so beautiful an airplane. A rich, dappled blue, from a dark, threatening thunderstorm to a light sky blue. The cowling is a brilliant, gleaming yellow. Beautiful, and Death on the wing. A Focke-Wulf 190." -Robert Johnson- |
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Not exactly a short range run there. When people take a plane out to see what it can do they really find what they can do with it. |
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Not so. The razor back A/B/C had a lower overall CD than the later D models. The B/C models were 20 odd MPH faster than the Ds. The major improvement of the D (other than two more guns) was the better all around visibility for the pilot. _____________________________  "Everything seems new to those too young to remember the old and too ignorant of history to have heard about it." - Thomas Sowell |
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After take off the vision in a P-51D is dramatacly better.
Seeing your enemy first is most times the key to a victory. Most if not all flight sims fail to give you a full picture of how important this is. The P-51D was a tad slower than a B or C model with the same engine. My bet is that the huge improvment in vision easily negated any small loss in performance. Eindecker |
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