I am trying to get to a bomber from pure horizontal 6, but then gunners usually chop me.

I tried steep dive, but I can not see where the bomber is, because engine obscures the view.

Any suggestions?

Attack them head-on. From above is best in a high speed pass, or do a side deflection shot if you have to, but never approach them from their six. You gotta get out of there fast when attacking and muster up some patience to get ahead of them for your next ripp-through.
And naturally, if you can get the sun at your back that is a real plus, but not always possible.

If you haven't the good fortune for a head on pass, try beam attacks. They take some practice, but your survival rate is much higher.

Head on is effective, but you must remember to pull up before you collide. This was certainly the case in real life - experienced by Hurricane pilots during the Battle of Britain - and led to some changes in scramble timings to allow the sections to gain a little more altitude. The position I look for is a front-quarter merge, preferably from a small advantage in altitude. It does depend on what type of bomber is the target, but the offset approach will keep me out of the arcs of the front-gunner and the mid-upper gunner. My primary target is the cockpit - kill the pilot and the plane will definitely go down.

Your best exit is up unless there are escorting fighters above! You should turn as you climb so as to prevent any gunner getting an easy shot at you. Diving under is also possible, using the same evasion moves as described. The main point is getting in as close as possible, and you may want to adjust your gun-convergence to a shorter range, and remembering to break off in time.

B

Whenever your gunsight is steady on the bomber,
you are a static target for the gunners.

Even if you are going 600mph; if you are
pointing directly at the bomber then you are
not moving from the point of view of the
gunner. You are just getting bigger quickly.

Minimize the time you are tracking the bomber
with your gunsight to the time you need to fire.

ALL bombers have blind spots. It's stupid not
to use them when you can.

The AI gunners, even humans, are poor at rapid
gun traversal. Take advantage of this by
approaching from one side and attacking from
the other. Top right -> top left and viceversa
works well.

Most bombers have lots of space that contains
nothing important. Unless you have big cannon,
aim for something that is important.


Don't think of bombers as easy kills. You need
to work just as hard to down a bomber without
taking damage as you need to work taking down a
fighter.
Remember you usually have lots of time; use it.
Don't get desperate, even if it means letting
the bomber go. It's not worth getting PKed for.

anywhere but dead 6.

Come in from high and the side, then zoom back up the other side, and rince and repeat.

How about 6 o'clock high, diving (and I mean a steep enough dive that your engine doesn't block the view)? I find it ridiculously hard to aim head-on. Side attacks ain't too bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
How about 6 o'clock high, diving (and I mean a steep enough dive that your engine doesn't block the view)? I find it ridiculously hard to aim head-on. Side attacks ain't too bad.

The problem with a high 6 approach is that you
have only two main options, neither of which
are preferable:

1) Give plenty of intercept lead so that you
only point at the bomber when you fire.
Pros:
It's much harder for the bomber's gunners to
aim at you.
Cons:
The bomber will be under your nose unless you
come in inverted.

2) Keep your nose pointed at the bomber.
Pros:
Very easy to aim, lots of firing time
Cons:
You're a static target from the POV of the gunner.
If you keep pointing at the bomber and don't
break off early you will end up on it's six.

quote:

Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
How about 6 o'clock high, diving (and I mean a steep enough dive that your engine doesn't block the view)?

only if you want to get shot.

You really just have to time it right when coming in high, he'll be under your nose but you can roll over every now and then (or dip the nose) to check when you should make your pass. And I mean start the maneuver HIGH, as in out of range of the defending guns and dive when you are ready to attack. Anyway if you're attacking a dive bomber come in low six because his gunner only covers the top section (make sure it's a dive bomber and not a torpedo bomber though as those often have a ball turret under the cockpit as well as the standard rear cockpit tail gunner).

The proper way to attack from the rear of the bomber is to actually make sweeps from the sides. It helps to be higher than the bomber to do this, but a good bomber pilot is likely to be flying higher or as high as you are, in which case you have to fly along side them out of the range of their guns til you are at about their 9 or 3 o'clock, or even a little ahead of that if you are further away. Then bank towards them and flatten out so that your flight path allows you to aim for the nearest wing tip. Essentially you will fly just behind them from their 7-8 or 4-5. In an ideal situation this means you'd hit them from wing tip to wing tip as you make your pass, and end up on the other side of the bomber where you should extend out of range and attempt another pass from the opposite side.

I say ideally because most pilots don't just sit still and let you shoot at them, so they are likely to turn or bank to make your shot more difficult but if you stick to your pattern and don't get suckered into following them into a turn then you won't get hit by their guns.
What happens is sometimes people line up for a good pass, but then end up parked on the six of a bomber because the few shots they landed didn't bring it down. If you are patient enough to do more than one pass you can get the kill with out taking any heat from their gunners.

The only exception is with ace AI gunners, which i use to practice, because i find that they are less forgiving with my mistakes. Then online against normal AI, they are practically defenseless.

bill

Some bombers you can get away with hitting from dead six, like the DB-3, they have guns on top and below but no tail gun so it seems like they rarely fire at me if I'm right behind them even though you'd think they could.

Bombers with a top turret you can attack from behind and below, like the Blenheim.

But with most big bombers with a lot of guns, you definitely have to be clever and fast, and even rookie AI will fill you up like swiss cheese no matter what direction you come from.

If you attack from any six postion, its just as Ba5tard5word said, do it from a point which has a guns blindspot.

many planes such as bf110, Blenhiem, il2's etc can be approached from low behind, because the gun cannot sight you.

However, any exception to this, ie attacking from high 6 with planes that have rear guns is stupid. You are putting yourself at huge risk, simply because you can't be bothered to position yourself correctly. You have to set up your attacks on bombers, not just charge in.

Reality.

http://video.google.ca/videopl...1812595429445699346#

quote:

Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Reality.

http://video.google.ca/videopl...1812595429445699346#

Nice link, good explanation of proper pursuit curves.

Side attack.

Then your bullets rip like a knife as the bomber passes you.

quote:

Originally posted by Lt_Letum:
Minimize the time you are tracking the bomber
with your gunsight to the time you need to fire.

ALL bombers have blind spots. It's stupid not
to use them when you can.

Most bombers have lots of space that contains
nothing important. Unless you have big cannon,
aim for something that is important.

The AI gunners, even humans, are poor at rapid
gun traversal. Take advantage of this by
approaching from one side and attacking from
the other. Top right -> top left and viceversa
works well.

Remember you usually have lots of time; use it.
Don't get desperate, even if it means letting
the bomber go. It's not worth getting PKed for.

This is probably the best set of advices.

.

Any approach will get you hit when you are up vs many bombers in formation that is practically unavoidable.
If you are able to separate one then finish him off in such manner, you can shot down even ace B-25's (2 very very mean guns in the rear) by quickly shifting left-right at point blank range. I was able to shot 2 veteran B-25's down using only machine guns in Bf-109 nose, so that speaks a lot of that tactic effectiveness.

The problem is when you are up vs experienced bomber formation... the high speed eagle attacks from above work best, but still wont guarantee that you wont get hit.
Try always to aim at formation leader as you will be exposed to less guns .

Good luck.

thanks for posting waldo, great vid.

aside from the tactics, it makes you realise how special the b29 was as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
Some bombers you can get away with hitting from dead six, like the DB-3, they have guns on top and below but no tail gun so it seems like they rarely fire at me if I'm right behind them even though you'd think they could.

Bombers with a top turret you can attack from behind and below, like the Blenheim.

But with most big bombers with a lot of guns, you definitely have to be clever and fast, and even rookie AI will fill you up like swiss cheese no matter what direction you come from.

Oh yeah those D-3s or B5Ns you can eat up real fast, but those with a tail gun can knock your ****inthedirt. I can go through some IJN bombers easy though. Especially the Betty even though they are bristling with gunners they catch fire easily.

Without a doubt the safest and most efficient way is to kill the pilot from head on. Even the most puny guns can bring down the largest bomber this way.