Thought I'd have a go at the P-51D-20NA full switch.

I've been reading around the web on the C.E.M. about the P-51 and there seems to be abit of conflict between what people actually do when trying to get it to perform best. Then of course some of the threads are 5 years old. LOL

Currently, I'm using the 4.09m and thought I'd ask for some updated info from P-51 flyers.

I've played with the PropPitch as described in some of the postings, and it would appear there is truth to the fact that Constant Speed Prop it doesn't work P-51.

All the trimming to make the P-51 attain greater speed appears to be correct.

Looking at the supercharger, magnetos and the fuel mixture; do they work in P-51 CEM? They don't appear to make any difference.

I noticed there were some mod P-51s. I was wondering what kind of performance changes, if any in those aircraft.

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by nearmiss:
Thought I'd have a go at the P-51D-20NA full switch.

I've been reading around the web on the C.E.M. about the P-51 and there seems to be abit of conflict between what people actually do when trying to get it to perform best. Then of course some of the threads are 5 years old. LOL

Currently, I'm using the 4.09m and thought I'd ask for some updated info from P-51 flyers.

I've played with the PropPitch as described in some of the postings, and it would appear there is truth to the fact that Constant Speed Prop it doesn't work P-51.

All the trimming to make the P-51 attain greater speed appears to be correct.

Looking at the supercharger, magnetos and the fuel mixture; do they work in P-51 CEM? They don't appear to make any difference.

I noticed there were some mod P-51s. I was wondering what kind of performance changes, if any in those aircraft.

Thanks

Been a while since I've flown a pony but IIRC mixture and supercharger in the 51 are automatic.

Try to keep your rpms in the green range on the gauge and she will be fast as hell.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...3110283/m/7871019387

http://deltachevron.com/forums...wtopic.php?f=3&t=236

If you ask me a moded P-51 isnt necessary since acheiving 320mph in the unmodded p-51 is easy to do if you know how to fly the mustang properly.

I feel that those who felt a need for a P-51 mod didn't spend enough time knowing fully how to fly her and felt she's underpowered as it is or worse, they felt it was 'porked'. You cannot just fly the mustang like a 109 and have her at full throttle and expect her to be fast.

I used ot feel that the P-51 in the game was wrong until I was taught by Miss Strega to fly her properly and OH BOY it was a revelation. She actually flew a real mustang you know.

X32Wright

I've been able to get it up to 400 MPH flat out at about 20K altitude. It isn't easy to hold it, but still it gets there = 643 KPH.

Been playing with it in dives and such, can't keep the wings on it. LOL

One thing I noticed that seems abit strange. When I select 90% power and 80% prop pitch the little titles thing says power 98%. Am I missing something here?

I've been climbing appx 12-13 degrees 100% no WEP with 100% Prop pitch. Not getting any overheat, but when I popup to WEP it overheats pretty darn fast.

I'm trying to find a way to get it to hold about 2700-2900 RPM. Somehow the relationship between Prop pitch and power settings has got to be just right. Probably right in front of me and I've not noticed.

When I dive, I've been working down on prop pitch 5% increments. I read where I should be at 50% Prop pitch at 500 MPH, which converts to 805 KPM. I'm wondering if that is correct? Afterall I think about the time I hit 500 MPH the wings are coming off.

I think flying the P-51D should be quite a new thing after 109s. The speed of the aircraft appears to be the key strength, with a not too bad turn rate when the fuel tanks are low.

Anyway, I'll probably be on this little learning spree for a couple weeks. Looks like the Pony is definitely a better ride when you tweak the toolkit.

Flying the Mustang is diferent form any other prop plane in the game.

I dont' even look at the throttle settings when I fly the mustang only at the intake 'Manifold Pressure' and 'RPM' and nothing else! You have to set the Manifold Pressure first then the Prop Pitch for the 'rpm'.

Never fly the Mustang at 100 throttle and PP (prop pitch) since that surely would overheat.

The structural limit of the Mustang is indeed 500mph as you found out on a dive. When shes dive I make sure I am below 40" manifold pressure and in most instance zero throttle unless I am pursuing somebody.

The P-51 is slowly but surely becoming one of my preferred rides. It is structurally tough, save for the engine, and the .50s are 109 rippers, and are enough to severely cripple a 190 to be finished off later.

As Wright has mentioned, full 100 power is not how it's to be flown. Also, WEP at low altitudes does nothing except to overheat your engine, so don't use it in these circumstances.

It can dive quickly, but don't make any motion with your elevator. Pulling too quickly tears the wings as far as I can tell.

I can see how the Mustang made a good escort fighter at high altitudes, but most of the online action takes place at low alt where the performance deteriorates relative to a 109...

The P51 will lose control surfaces if you jerk around the stick...the trick is to move in ONE DIRECTION('plane' ONLY at a time .If flown smoothly it can descend at up to 880/890kmh easily enough...it seems that diving using the expert 'Ms Strega' settings of 75% prop pitch and manifold pressure 50inch (on the redline)will give a steadier descent and maintain the speed for longer,cooler...I do find though that for brief max speed you have to use the WEP and 110% power...

The modded Mustangs are a true work of beauty and only fixed some glaring errors.

It was given its correct belting for the .50's
making it historically correct.

Before it had its center of gravity too far back making it one of the most unstable and bouncy aircraft in the Sim. While this situation is most certainly correct when the 80 gallon tank behind the pilot was full by the time they hit France it was empty since it was used first.

Olegs model had you flying with that COG handicap until your fuel hit less than 25 percent.

The new stangs are just a bit more stable.

They are not faster. They do not roll quicker.
It really was a well researched effort and I definitely recommend you try it before eating somebody else's assumption on the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by X32Wright:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...3110283/m/7871019387

http://deltachevron.com/forums...wtopic.php?f=3&t=236

If you ask me a moded P-51 isnt necessary since acheiving 320mph in the unmodded p-51 is easy to do if you know how to fly the mustang properly.

I feel that those who felt a need for a P-51 mod didn't spend enough time knowing fully how to fly her and felt she's underpowered as it is or worse, they felt it was 'porked'. You cannot just fly the mustang like a 109 and have her at full throttle and expect her to be fast.

I used ot feel that the P-51 in the game was wrong until I was taught by Miss Strega to fly her properly and OH BOY it was a revelation. She actually flew a real mustang you know.

I fly the 51 primarily.. and my issue with it has always been primarily stability.. and from my understanding that is the only thing that was altered..

quote:

The modded Mustangs are a true work of beauty and only fixed some glaring errors.
It was given its correct belting for the .50's
making it historically correct.
Before it had its center of gravity too far back making it one of the most unstable and bouncy aircraft in the Sim. While this situation is most certainly correct when the 80 gallon tank behind the pilot was full by the time they hit France it was empty since it was used first.
Olegs model had you flying with that COG handicap until your fuel hit less than 25 percent.
The new stangs are just a bit more stable.
They are not faster. They do not roll quicker.
It really was a well researched effort and I definitely recommend you try it before eating somebody else's assumption on the subject.

Exactly.. although I think ti does roll a little faster.. with all due respec6 to Ms. Strega..(I have a link to here tips in my sig) the stability issue was off.. it was more accentuated by the fact that the sim doesn't model fuel consupmtion to reflect the change in stability with consumption.. As a gun platform the plane is simply a more stable platform than it was.. it still has all the rest of it's quirks.. stuill requires trimming to get the most out of it... but it is no longer like trying to balance a ruler on a pencil..

Bearcat..

I always enjoy to read your postings. Guess we're kinda attached at the hip or something. Still doing this great sim after a decade. LOL

Having a great time learning the pony. Spent the past two days reading what I could find, and just finished printing out the P-51 manual.

Lots of good information is out there. All I read indicates the C.E.M. for the P-51 in Il2 is porked, yet the issues appear to have been pretty well resolved by users.

Got to thinking about the prop pitch thing vs. the Constant speed prop thing. It is not like Oleg to leave out this kinda thing.

Maybe he was thinking with the CSP working correctly, the speed of the P-51 might have caused it to be a bit too uber. So he leaves a few features for users to have to learn and master to make the aircraft the competent pony it is.

Looks like I'll be doing a lot of quick missions with the pony, getting my hotas setup properly,etc. It may be a week or so before I'm up to snuff to get Online, competent enough not to get snuffed too much. LOL

I appreciate all the responses... great information and a real help.

quote:

Originally posted by X32Wright:
Flying the Mustang is diferent form any other prop plane in the game.

I dont' even look at the throttle settings when I fly the mustang only at the intake 'Manifold Pressure' and 'RPM' and nothing else! You have to set the Manifold Pressure first then the Prop Pitch for the 'rpm'.

Never fly the Mustang at 100 throttle and PP (prop pitch) since that surely would overheat.

The structural limit of the Mustang is indeed 500mph as you found out on a dive. When shes dive I make sure I am below 40" manifold pressure and in most instance zero throttle unless I am pursuing somebody.

This isn't clear enough for my cerebral cortex. I realize there is a correlation between prop pitch and engine power. I'm just not getting a handle on it. Could be just the terminology that has me.

When I select a throttle setting I get a icon on the right side of the screen, which says power 90%,80% etc. Then if I change the prop it will give me a 90%,80%,etc. Immediately after I set prop that same icon pops up and says power again at a different % amount. This is a bit confusing. Guess, if throttle was called throttle, I would get better handle on it.

Don't know if I should just ignore the final power%, because I know what I set for power and prop pitch. Yet when I read some of the linked postings I get an idea this final power icon is significant.

I don't remember all I've read, but maybe if you could clarify a couple things. Does this sound correct?

Set manifold pressure by power level?

Then set PP to a level that brings RPM to 2700-2900?

One thing in many of the postings that is confusing is the crossovers from meters to miles per hour,etc. Some of the posters I think would be confused, if they read their postings carefully. LOL

This is my first time flying MPH planes vs KPH aircraft. The difference in airspeed is tremendous.

I kept blowing the wings off my ride in dives, because I read a posting that indicated to lower Prop pitch when airspeed was around 450-500 MPH.
Methinks the poster meant to say KPH.

Speed really doesn't register like it does in the real world. Just something about the ground coming at you at 500 MPH just doesn't register sitting in front of the computer. LOL

quote:

Set manifold pressure by power level?

Then set PP to a level that brings RPM to 2700-2900?

Yes

quote:

Olegs model had you flying with that COG handicap until your fuel hit less than 25 percent.

Are you sure aircraft COG in IL2 is variable?

I was under the impression that COG doesnt change (impossible to implement, not in the game code) which is why we cant select different fuel tanks in game.

Regarding P51 performance tips, the big one is CLOSE the radiator.

I don't believe it's variable either.

I always flew the old Mustangs with never more than 25%. This helped it handle a little better, but the CoG never changed. Non variable CoG WAS the problem. The poor old Mustang was constantly toting around a full fuselage tank.

I won't fly the old IL2 P51Ds again.

quote:

Originally posted by TS_Sancho:

quote:

Olegs model had you flying with that COG handicap until your fuel hit less than 25 percent.

Are you sure aircraft COG in IL2 is variable?

I was under the impression that COG doesnt change (impossible to implement, not in the game code) which is why we cant select different fuel tanks in game.

Regarding P51 performance tips, the big one is CLOSE the radiator.

From a discussion with the Daedalus Team over on the yellow forums, the CoG doesn't change, and it is position where it would be with the wing tanks full, and fuselage tanks empty. They are looking into the possibility of implementing moving CoG's, but it sounds like at low fuel, the CoG is going to be where it is now on the Mustang, while the 100% fuel setting is going to be worse, due to the tank.

Which is just as well, considering, in game, the last tank to drain is, in fact, the center line tank. I only discovered this, when I was trying to figure out where the P-51 fuel gauges were. Then I found them.

On Mustang performance, over on the other forum, I ran a set of simple max speed tests of the P-51 at 8km, and found that all the version get between 730kph-750kph (455-470mph), even with the default prop settings. Note that this was at 25% fuel, with unlimited fuel and unlimited WEP, so ymmv.

One fun thing that came out of that is that the Mustang Mk III is a real hot-rod at low altitudes. I believe it is the fastest plane at sea level currently in game.

I can assure you that the handling qualities of the P-51 in IL2 are not consistent with a full fuselage tank.

With a full fuselage tank the aeroplane was actually unstable in pitch and would tighten up in turns; a push force on the stick was required to prevent this.

The P-51 in IL2 exhibits poor damping, but this is an entirely different animal from genuine pitch instability which is what real P-51D suffered from with a full fuselage tank. For this reason, aerobatics were actually prohibited until most of the aft tank fuel was gone, because there was potential for pilots to get themselves into serious trouble.

This isn't to say that the IL2 P-51 is without some serious deficiencies.

My testing strongly suggests that the radiator doesn't work; or at least changing radiator position doesn't affect cooling performance to any meaningful extent (although it does affect drag).

Therefore the best way to fly the P-51 seems to be to immediately shut the radiator and forget about it.

Stay at or below 100% power in order to avoid overheating.

I haven't noticed any significant advantage from playing with prop pitch settings, other than the obvious fact that if you have to glide then 0% prop pitch will reduce drag.

Bomb/drop tank racks cause a considerable reduction in speed. Whilst the real P-51 suffered from a reduction in speed due to rack drag, this was nothing like as large as in IL2. Therefore it is advisable to avoid carrying drop tanks like the plague.

Despite the rack drag, the Mustang III is a good fighter-bomber; you can get in fast, and get out faster than the vast majority of the historical opposition.

I never had a problem with the old P-51s. I understand to keep them fast and they will always do well like most of the USAAF planes.

Just to clarify for those who may not understand prop pitch on American birds, its actually the rpm setting. Its related to CSP in that it will adjust to maintain what ever rpm you set. I'd look at the gauge to see where your RPMs are, and get a feel for where the "prop pitch" display is at.
It was a bit confusing for me at first, but once you understand that you are setting RPM speed, and not necessarily the pitch of the prop, it gets a bit easier to understand how to use it.

For example, at 70 percent throttle and 100 prop pitch, the RPM will be the same as it is at 100 throttle and 100 prop pitch.
Note however, that the actual prop pitch is different with each of these settings because the way the CSP system works.

This is why when you you lower throttle to 50 percent and let the RPM settle, then suddenly pour on the throttle to 100 or WEP, you get an over rev and the engine RPMs can go as high as 3000.


Bill

I've noticed the radiators is just something else to do. As long as my (power and Prop pitch <= 100%) = no overheat.

I've been trying to find the balance between the two. I was at 25KFeet earlier and with short yo-yo dives I got it up to 450MPH pretty steady. I was beginning to think I might blow the wings of the thing flat horizontal. LOL

It seems to Zoom climb pretty well, if I give it abit of time at 100% Power and 100% Prop flat out before heading high (that is from a steady horizontal cruise).

The diving has it's issues. Starts shaking pretty early so I'm going to have to give compression a good deal more thought entering into dives. There maybe a best way to do it, but a 90% power x 90% prop pitch it starts shaking pretty darn fast. I'm talking about a approximate 70 degree dive. I didn't check my IAS before going in, so gotta think about this more before I start the dive.

There maybe a best IAS, Prop and power setting to enter dives from a horz cruise.

The difference in level flight max speed between leaving the radiator setting on auto and closing it is about 25 kph.