I have been messing with the latest 1.2 UI mod install and made myself and excellent Battle of Britain scenario to prepare for SOW. Most of the time I fly the modded 109E1 because I think it's cool to fly. Also have read a post or two in here where someone stated that most of the 109s in BOB had no automatic PP, only manual. Researched that and found it to be accurate. So of course I decided to try my hand at flying the 109 like the Germans really did it. And I am actually good at it now!!

Granted, it's much more challenging, not only getting kills but keeping yourself alive because it's one more thing to think about. But I find I'm finally able to survive most skirmishes and get a kill or two also lately. Adding to the challenge is the fact that you only have four small Mgs in the E1 and no cannons. So it take a lot more ammo and time to get a kill. This in turn of course gives a Spit AI to call in a friendly to tail you. Very tough fighting indeed......But if I can master the manual thing then I think most other people can too. Just make sure you go down to 10 or 20% PP in a hard dive and in a zoom climb you can go back up to 90 to 100% for a time. Most of the time you'll want to be in the 50 to 60% range at full throttle or near full throttle when flying level. I've also found that you can go past 2500 RPM, sometimes as high as 2700 RPM as long as it's only for a second or three, without damage to your engine. I've done it and then still afterward was able to chase down Spits and didn't hear funny engine noises either.

I didnt know there was manual pp? Is it on all of the models or only the MOD ones?

quote:

Originally posted by Eow_TK:
I didnt know there was manual pp? Is it on all of the models or only the MOD ones?

No, it's available on all 109s, that come with the official releases. But it would be unrealistic to use it on a mid-war or late war 109. They had much more up to date automatic systems and a 109 pilot probably would not have used manual unless his auto system was damaged. Not absolutely sure about that, I'm no expert. But if you fly the Emil versions like the E4 and E7 that come with the official game it's not so unrealistic to use manual.

In order to use it, you have to go into 'controls' and bind a key or button to it. There is no default key or key combo for it. I don't think there is anyway.

Make sure you have a key or button set to toggle between automatic and manual control, and know where it is.

You should reassign keys in controls anyway since number keys are set to throttle and if you have a throttle then
you can set them up for prop pitch (unless you use a slider or rotary, then set em for mixture) so you don't have
to hold shift or something else (I switched mine over long ago, I forget the default) which is a pain in the a...

Important to me is binding the + and - 5% to just lower the pitch as the engine sounds too fast and bring it up
when the engine sounds too slow. I don't have to remember exactly where the pitch is, just increase/decrease as
needed and occasionally coordinate throttle

I'd concentrate more on SA, radiator control and my wingmen.
I might practise the skill if it were 1 vs 1 109-only-championship but aerial combat was never that kind of thing.

You do use TIR, don't you?
I saw many pilots without headtracker often stick to these kind of tricks to compensate poor SA and heat&E management, which looks like defeat was from performance inferiority.

quote:

Originally posted by mortoma:
I have been messing with the latest 1.2 UI mod install and made myself and excellent Battle of Britain scenario to prepare for SOW. Most of the time I fly the modded 109E1 because I think it's cool to fly. Also have read a post or two in here where someone stated that most of the 109s in BOB had no automatic PP, only manual. Researched that and found it to be accurate. So of course I decided to try my hand at flying the 109 like the Germans really did it. And I am actually good at it now!!

They did have automatic prop pitch, already at the start of the war, but it would appear that not all Emils got them - I presume the first production models (nota bene, Emils entereted production at the end of 1938).

Oleg said it will be modelled accordingly, there will be several versions of the Emil. Ones with auto and manual, and ones with manual PP only, as historically. Furthermore, there will be both E-1 and E-3, and you can probably choose between versions with the armored headrest and without.

Even pilots flying 109s would shift from auto to manual if they felt the need.

I know that auto is going to be more precise, but if I'm anticipating a dive then i'll manually shift it down, and then at the bottom of the dive click it back to auto.

I leave climbing to auto as well, but on some engines, particularly when its boosted i find i can get more out of the engine by running it
at a slightly lower rpm than where auto places it. Also, you can still fry your engine using auto while boosted in some situations.

whats cool is that while auto is on, i can adjust the manual pitch so when i click off auto it will go to where ever i set it.

IMO, 109 is a much faster plane if you know how to use the prop pitch, while others insist auto is better.

quote:

most of the 109s in BOB had no automatic PP, only manual

Have they modelled the fixed pitch and two stage propellers the RAF used as well?

quote:

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Make sure you have a key or button set to toggle between automatic and manual control, and know where it is.

You should reassign keys in controls anyway since number keys are set to throttle and if you have a throttle then
you can set them up for prop pitch (unless you use a slider or rotary, then set em for mixture) so you don't have
to hold shift or something else (I switched mine over long ago, I forget the default) which is a pain in the a...

Important to me is binding the + and - 5% to just lower the pitch as the engine sounds too fast and bring it up
when the engine sounds too slow. I don't have to remember exactly where the pitch is, just increase/decrease as
needed and occasionally coordinate throttle

You did your keys exactly the same way I did it. I have my numbers ( not numpad numbers ) set up to change prop pitch. With 1 being 10% and 0 being 100%. I find that you don't need 0 to 5% proper pitch as 10% is as low as you ever need to go and that's in a literally straight down dive. The + and - keys are the ones I use the most because they more realistically emulate the rocker switch in the 109 cockpit. And the 5% increments is nicer.

quote:

Originally posted by TooCooL34:
I'd concentrate more on SA, radiator control and my wingmen.
I might practise the skill if it were 1 vs 1 109-only-championship but aerial combat was never that kind of thing.

You do use TIR, don't you?
I saw many pilots without headtracker often stick to these kind of tricks to compensate poor SA and heat&E management, which looks like defeat was from performance inferiority.

Whatever do you mean? If you want to realistically mimic the way most German 109 pilots did it then you have to use manual. That's just the way it was.

quote:

Originally posted by Kurfurst__:

quote:

Originally posted by mortoma:
I have been messing with the latest 1.2 UI mod install and made myself and excellent Battle of Britain scenario to prepare for SOW. Most of the time I fly the modded 109E1 because I think it's cool to fly. Also have read a post or two in here where someone stated that most of the 109s in BOB had no automatic PP, only manual. Researched that and found it to be accurate. So of course I decided to try my hand at flying the 109 like the Germans really did it. And I am actually good at it now!!

They did have automatic prop pitch, already at the start of the war, but it would appear that not all Emils got them - I presume the first production models (nota bene, Emils entereted production at the end of 1938).

Oleg said it will be modelled accordingly, there will be several versions of the Emil. Ones with auto and manual, and ones with manual PP only, as historically. Furthermore, there will be both E-1 and E-3, and you can probably choose between versions with the armored headrest and without.

I didn't mean to say they didn't have it. I know that they had it. But few planes had it installed at the time and in most cases it didn't work very well. Maybe in the last month or two of the battle more 109s had it but at first very few did. According to some of the experts around here and some testimony from Luftwaffe pilots anyway.

The 190 Antons are fun to fly with manual pitch control too.

quote:

Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
The 190 Antons are fun to fly with manual pitch control too.

Historically the Fw-190 Anton would never be flown on manual. The option only existed in an emergency when the Auto engine management system
(Kommandogerat) failed. When used outside the system RPM had to be reduced and the aircraft literally limped home.

That manual prop pitch in the 109 brings back memories.

In first release of Forgotten Battles the emils HAD ONLY manual pitch. Fun times. Then I remember the K4's screaming with the manual pitch assigned on a slider. I burned so many engines. That was a lot of work with the fast reacting K4 pitch back then. All our squad was flying 109's on manual ... I'm a lazy guy, so I switched to 190's.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaws2002:
That manual prop pitch in the 109 brings back memories.

In first release of Forgotten Battles the emils HAD ONLY manual pitch. Fun times. Then I remember the K4's screaming with the manual pitch assigned on a slider. I burned so many engines. That was a lot of work with the fast reacting K4 pitch back then. All our squad was flying 109's on manual ... I'm a lazy guy, so I switched to 190's.

putting the manual prop pitch on a slider..


Ya I'm lazy too jaws. That is why I always assign all these functions as "auto"

Back then the prop pitch was reacting instantly to imput. In il-2 there's an advantage when assigning tasks on sliders or analog dials. You can control the prop pitch with buttons in 5% increments. With a slider (when assigned in the "Hotas" area of the controls menu), you have 1% increments, so you have a lot more precise control over the prop pitch. In the late 109's, which are very sensitive to pitch changes, that could mean the difference between being faster or destroying your engine.

Sort of the same problem with assigning trim on a slider instead of buttons. On slider the trim reacts instantly, on buttons there's a long delay.

Cool! sliders for everything!

can you imagine a joystick with all sliders.

That's why i never got the CH throttle to go with my CH stick and CH pedals. No sliders.
I got an x-45 and use the analog rotary dials for pp and trim. Power and agility at my finger tips.

quote:

Originally posted by Kettenhunde:

quote:

most of the 109s in BOB had no automatic PP, only manual

Have they modelled the fixed pitch and two stage propellers the RAF used as well?

I haven't seen anything that would say one way or the other, but my reading indicates that the Hurricane and Spitfire squadrons closest to the Channel had fully CSP units by August of 1940, even to the point of some Spits getting the units (complete with bulbous spinner) originally intended for a Hurricane.

Units in Northern Ireland and northern half of the UK may have still had fixed or two stage prop units as late as that winter (1940/41), but again, I don't recall anything specifically mentioned.

Hopefully, if Oleg includes these models, he will 'issue' them to the offline player in a historically correct time/place setting.

cheers

horseback

quote:

Hurricane and Spitfire squadrons closest to the Channel

quote:

Units in Northern Ireland and northern half of the UK

The Squadrons rotated according to the official RAF history on a regular basis.

The first CSP's the RAF recieved offered no increase in performance. DH engineers worked on a solution and IIRC, in June of 1940 found one.

DH says they completed the conversion by August 1940 but the RAF contest's DH claims saying the conversion was not complete until much later. They finally dropped the matter in early 1943 as the propellers where no longer in service and the issue was unresolved.

All the best,

Crumpp