If Saitek made a quality FFB HOTAS I would buy it. I really like the idea of force feedback pedals as well as stick.

Salute

I would not be interested in buying a FFB joystick.

Why not?

It's not because I dislike FFB joysticks, I have owned several.

It's because there is a better system to portray the effects of vibration etc. in an aircraft.

That is the BUTTKICKER system. (no, I do not work for the company)

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/ButtKicker%20Gamer_home.html

Here is a review of the system by SIMHQ:

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_107a.html

Instead of feeling the forcefeedback effects just through your hand, and in a very minor way, you feel it through the seat of your pants, as a real pilot would. If you mount your joystick on your seat, you feel it through your hand as well.

Sim Designers should be modelling future sims to take advantage of systems like BUTTKICKER.

Pre-stall shudders, buffeting, vibration from damaged parts, guns firing, and hits on the aircraft, all should be modelled.

Its time for Designers to take the whole simulation experience beyond what it is now.

Quick question.......forgive me I haven't done any research on FFB, never had a force-feedback stick, but with FFB, could you, depending on the game, use the FFB to set the tension/resistance of the joystick? This would be great since now I'm using wooden beads in the spring of my X52.

OK Buzz... now imagine this.. you have a Buttkicker.. (I have one...) and you not only get the engine vibes in your seat... but in your hands and feet as well. And the stall buffet too!! The thing with the BK that is a drawback is that it works off the sound.... but FFB is something that sends specific information .... with the BK.. when another plane taxis up to me.. I feel his engine too..... I shouldn't feel that over my own engine... The BK is nice,, in fact I think I posted on it in this very forum and a lot of folks got it because of that.. a few anyway.... but FFB is something different.

I'd be in on that (FFB HOTAS).

* _54th_Speeder *

i voted yes

however, i completely understand that it is difficult to get a business case put together behind it for such high-end products, because only hard-core simmers will buy it, not the average guys

i suggest saitek to consider also the still ongoing MSFFB2 sales on eBay, not bad for a product which was announced officially dead long ago... and still kicking butt in real life

now add the HOTAS set up possibility... and it will be attractive for 20 years to come

Why do people say they want increased tension?

With my MSFFB2 the tension/stiffness increases the faster the airflow over the control surfaces.

At high speed in some aircraft the tension/stiffness is really quite considerable.

Also, I've switched off the return to centre option in the Sidewinder software, the last thing you want when you're slow e.g. trying to roll level off the top of a loop is the software trying to move your stick to where it thinks it should be, return to centre is unnatural and unhelpful.

I would like FFB HOTAS, so I can have more buttons and sliders to adjust trim & pitch, and mixture, etc, etc.

What I would not like is something built for people with huge hands, if the buttons are too far apart I can't reach them instantaneously and they might as well be on a keyboard.

I'd buy one definitely - but can they move the rudder switch back to the rocker on the throttle rather than the twist stick?

quote:

Originally posted by rnzoli:
i voted yes

however, i completely understand that it is difficult to get a business case put together behind it for such high-end products, because only hard-core simmers will buy it, not the average guys

i suggest saitek to consider also the still ongoing MSFFB2 sales on eBay, not bad for a product which was announced officially dead long ago... and still kicking butt in real life

now add the HOTAS set up possibility... and it will be attractive for 20 years to come

Good points. The business case might not be all that bad, consider that rudder pedals aren't mainstream either, and we've got them. One more reason to hope!

FFB in flightsims is something that before flying aircraft in real life I found very interesting, now however I am worried that it will only be exaggerated effects.

There's nothing realisic in having the stick wiggle and vibrate while taxing.
There nothing realistic in having the stick bump when you touchdown.

If however, game programmers (and of course stick manufacturers) can come up with realistic FFB effects (turbulence, aileron instability, forms of drag on control surfaces, damage to control surfaces) then it would be a no-brainer, but with current effects I'll pass.

60 replys... 723 views... c'mon people.

Been there done that. Got the tee shirt. I'll stick with my set up, thanks.

How about a reasonably priced USB collective for us Helo guys?

Cheers

Just ask Saitek to try a MS FFB2, a couple of minutes flying the MS FFB2 and then they'll understand.

Personally, I've never cared much for force feedback. However, If Saitek were to go above and beyond the usual force feedback experience, they might be able to convince me to try it whenever my current X-52 goes bad (A year and a half and no troubles yet).

Count me in.

I've been posting at the other place about the lack of a decent FFB sticks for ages. Really I'd prefer something sturdy from CH, but if Saitek come through with an X52 FFB I'd definitely be very interested.

HI Bear,

Yes I would be intrested if Saitek can fix the joystick spring tension if saitek could build a stick like the FFB2 stick from Microsoft they would have my support. I bought a X52 but the spring tension on it just killed me.

quote:

Originally posted by Bearcat99:
60 replys... 723 views... c'mon people.

I love FFB and its interesting to me, but I think you can take that as a collective yawn.

I would buy one - I have never got FFB to work properly and haven't tried a FFB stick for years. I have an MS FFB stick that has a gameport connection, not a 2, and never got it to work on ME or XP so it is sat up in the loft.

I have tried to get a MSFFB 2 on EBAY but got really peed off when my bids got knocked out at the last minute - happened 4 times. Probably one of you hoarders....c'mon guys, share a little will ya.

I've been watching the way this thread has progressed, and beyond personal preference of the pilot, (and perhaps my viewpoint may be overly-simplistic,) but:
- if one considers the potential market of enthusiasts for flight pedals is one element,
- another element consists of those pilots who either want, have or wish for a more immersive experience (vis-a-vis, HOTAS)
- and yet a third element who may be FFB fans, but YET to purchase HOTAS BECAUSE there is none currently yet produced (I am in this category as well)

And such a company as Saitek takes the chance of producing pedals for such enthusiasts, when clearly up until this time there has been only one player previously for it (Pro Pedals) - yet they roll the dice (from a marketing standpoint) and end up bringing to market a product that has been recognized as superior to the previous status quo,

Then by bringing to market the first, and only (as of yet) FFB HOTAS would:
- Further their image as an innovative company
- Endear them to the flight sim community (more)
- Reinforce the reputation of being responsive to their target market
- Make them the sole player for FFB HOTAS

I've written a business case or two over the years. I might imagine any such venture in a specialized market such as flight simming may be at times a gamble, but there is (IMHO) a need- or at the very least, a desire- to have this type of equipment available. Perhaps what an additional relevant question might be: what would you think would be a reasonable price for such equipment? Saitek's price points have always been competitive in my estimation. If the X-52 goes for anywhere from 99 to 109 USD, would it not be unreasonable to set the price point at say, 150 (or even 200) USD? Would people be willing to shell out for the added experience? The Thrustmaster HOTAS retails at 299 USD, but can be had for 205 USD (source: www.amazon.com). I think that Saitek could easilly offer more value for less were it FFB.

Not meaning to ramble - but the math seems to indicate (to me) that it would be a good opportunity for the company.

Regards,

Triad