Gentlemen... as some of you may know I am a huge fan of FFB and with the departure of MS from the joystick market the FFB options are limited. As some of you may also know I have been in conversations with a gentleman from Saitek.. totally unofficial mind you ... just kicking ideas around... No promises of anything... just talking.... and we were discussing a FFB HOTAS from Saitek and what the possibilities might hypothetically be of one day seeing that. This is his latest email to me.

<sub>Hi Barry,
Thanks for the quick turnaround.
1. Yes: I did mean the actual FFB programmed by the developers.
2. Storm of War: Thanks. let me know what you learn.
3. "Field of dreams": I get your point.
Meanwhile, my reality is that I need to make a case that X52 FFB is going to
make business sense in the foreseeable future - with evidence. No problem if
some of the evidence is based on conversations and qualitative stuff, but in the
end it has to help pay the rent. The Saitek product management style has always
been pretty open minded on that front, ready to go another step, but I am going
to need some substance to underpin my case.
Best regards,
Eric</sub>

So there it is. Now I know that these forums are a limited sample in the overall scheme of things.... but it is as good a place to begin to take the pulse of an idea as any. I will post links to this thread on several other forums just so that the results can all be kept in one place. Who knows what may copme of this.... but hey... We can dream right?

Question:
How interested would you be in purchasing a FFB HOTAS setup from Saitek IF one were available.

This is bearing in mind that the standard as far as FFB quality and sturdiness that I am using is of course the big daddy as far as FFB sticks go.. the Sidewinder FFB. So just say hypothetically that this stick was at the very least as robust as the Sidewinder... with as a minimum the force adjustments that the Sidewinder had (Of couse a lot of this is software dependent... as in the software should be able to utilize the feature).

Think about this very carefully before you answer... and also include in your answer FFB features you would like to see a developer be it 1C or Pulsewave or whomever add to the application layer of their software to take advantage of a more dynamic FFB.

FFB has been close to a gimmick so to speak.. but perhaps we may have an opportunity here to actually take this hobby of ours and have a lasting impact on how it is done. It is partly up to us.

Please try to keep your answers as to the point as possible.

Choices:
I would be very interested in buying it.
I would not be interested in buying it.

 

Of course I would be very interested in such a thing. I would love to see more features than what is currently in most FFB modules in the current crop of sims that support FFB. I would like to see developers implement.

Engine vibration (rumble pad technology in the pedals, throttle and the stick..)
landing gear/flap movement.. as in when touching the ground etc...
gunshake (just not in the stick.. but perhaps in the base.... )
wind turbulance
damage
ordinance release
flight/stall characteristics..

Of course much of this is modelled already... though some of it isnt.

Thats my two cents.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bearcat99,

Hi Bear, that's really great that they're thinking about going full FFB. Why not also ask your contact to go on ebay and check out what used MSFFB sticks are going for by way of a finger in the air research, I've got one and I know there are guys here who've purchased several to make sure they're good for quite a few years yet.

A quality FFB HOTAS? This would be the only product on the market of its kind. They would OWN the market. Business wise it makes great sense IMO.

FFB HOTAS!!!

If this happened, I might finally be able to convince myself to swap my modded Cougar for a Saitek HOTAS.

I will sticky this for @ a week... then unsticky it so as not to clog up the boards...

Thanks for this BC! Like I said before, when I contacted Saitek about a ffb hotas, their reply was 'no plans to produce'. I hope they can see their way to creating a viable plan. I've used the Cyborg Evo (good stick, my son uses it now), and use their pedals (which are great), but I've held off buying a hotas because I just don't want to fly without the ffb.

Like others have said, starting with a very close look at what's right about the Sidewinder (correct ergononics, precision, sturdiness) and then adding in the usual X45/52 Saitek goodness would make for a great setup. Past that, I can't add too much to your list, BC. I would look to change the Sidewinder's modeling of control response to atmospheric turbulence, which is completly wrong, imo. I also wouldn't see any need for the throttle to have any ffb effects. Past that, what you've got there would be good. What might be nice would be a place to plug your headset in, one less cable.

Thanks again!

It would be great, to get rid of the X45 stick i have standing useles beside my monitor...
Wish there could be someone who can build a full set....Stick, hotas and ruder-pedals, all with FFB.

As I stated at SimHQ, a long stick including ffb would be my personal favorite and if it would allow for real trimming, there would be nothing more to ask for.

Bearcat - EEXCELLLENT topic! I have a Saitek Evo Force that I have learnt to like very much. I am interested in HOTAS, be sure- but the one thing that has kept me from pulling the trigger (so to speak) is that I would not relish putting out some hard earned cash only to have a manufacturer come out with a FFB version. In short, a FFB HOTAS would put that upgrade on the fast track for me.

<EDIT> Also- were there to be such an animal as FFB HOTAS produced, please make the FFB tension greater, and adjustable. Frankly the force on my Evo Force has a lot to be desired when compared to products like Saitek's R440 FFB Driving Wheel.</EDIT>

I have had my Pro Pedals for about a year I think, but some of the info I have read on these and other boards is that the Saitek pedals have adjustable tension, and although not FFB, they give some of that feeling. So that being said, were I to at some point be interested in the upgrade to Saitek pedals for station #1 on my LAN, then the only thing missing WOULD be FFB HOTAS. This older gear would go to station # 2, and I would use to fly with an occasional visiting pilot.

Great poll as well. I feel that Saitek has the capability to respond to these types of requests more readily from my experience with their company too.

Cheers

Triad

quote:

Originally posted by Ploughman:
...I know there are guys here who've purchased several to make sure they're good for quite a few years yet.

Yep, and I'm not looking forward to the time that my backup finally breaks. There is a vacuum for a good FFB stick.

cheers,
Ratsack

I have read that the MS FFB sticks mimic aircraft pre-stall shudders, somewhat as in real life. I don't know how this is put into the flight model but THAT + an basic stick force adjustment would be BIG factors in my saying yes, I would buy one, probably along with Saitek rudder pedals.

OneMug

A quality FFB HOTAS would be a Godsend, but I bought an X52 for guests' and my kids' use, and just fiddling with it and setting it up, I have to say that button-wise, the 'stick' portion was waaay too busy, and the throttle wasn't busy enough.

I use my right hand for guiding/aiming the aircraft and my left hand for button-clicking and (ideally) trim axis adjusting. The X-52's throttle has nice axis wheels and slider, but I want more buttons on the throttle to close the deal.

I gotta have at least three 4-way hats next to my left thumb & forefinger to complement the axes and slider(s), or I may have to stay with my non-FFB CH setup.

cheers

horseback

I think a forcefeedback hotas system would sell very well. I have the MSFFB, but its not the FF that I like so much but the adjustable stick tension that is adjustable due to the forcefeedback mechanism.

Unfortunately the stick can have all the features in the world but if its as unprecise as the early X52 it will be of no good use. I have tried the later Saitek Aviator and was very impressed, so Saitek may have fixed the issues I had with the X52. Also if the stick is longer its precision must be very good or its liablities are increased for every millimeter of length.

I also think Saitek should rework the form of their throttle and take alook at the Cougar as a fine example. With the Cougar throttle your able to wrap your hand more comfortably, and naturally around the handle with more precise control and use of buttons and rotaries.

Saitek does listen to its customers and if they built a precise hotas system with adjustable forcefeedback, and stick tension the market would be theirs.

The Saitek footpedals and toe brakes are the best on the market.

I've long been a Saitek user and would be a buyer. I've appreciated the fact that Saitek caters to lefties (please don't start the old "they don't fly that way - yada yada yada" - don't care).

I've only tried out FFB on other peoples' system. I'd like to see Saitek expand the experience with more types of feedback. Please just don't make the stick vibrate endlessly to simulate engine vibrations though. That would be far too tiring on the hands.

I would be very interested if they came out with an FFB HOTAS. Like others have said, a HOTAS with force feedback would pretty much be on top of the market.
If it was sturdy enough, you can bet I'd try and get my hands on one.

Increased tension (A lot more than what's on the X52) would be very good, along with more ergonomically designed throttle. And more detailed force feedback, rather than just the generic bumps and vibrating would be great.

Great idea BC,
I have had a few of Saiteks products and I like them. I currently use the X-52, but I would surely consider changing to a stick that puts more feeling into the game. I would want the FFB to be easily adjustable for all settings.
I would like the FFB to model a feed back for..
When the gear locks down/up.
Various weapons feedback.
For when ones aircraft is hit by enemy fire.
Stall effects.
for touchdowns/and takeoffs.
Negative gravity engine stutters.
And what ever else I might have missed.
We need lots of buttons on the flight stick, and a I button mode changer to triple (at least)
the number of buttons, as on the X-52.
I think that Saitek would be missing a good chance to get a very significant share of the market if they dont come out with an FFB. Now is the time for it, with all the new sims coming out, as well as our old favs that already support FFB. It is mostly becoming more realistic in alot of games these days and an HOTAS FFB would give us another step forward in immersion/virtual reality. Im all for it.
Regards
Dag

quote:

Originally posted by -FI-RULES:
It would be great, to get rid of the X45 stick i have standing useles beside my monitor...
Wish there could be someone who can build a full set....Stick, hotas and ruder-pedals, all with FFB.

You can do this... use the X-45 stick as a button bay..... Note that it was off to the side.. but using the SST software which is one of Saiteks strong points IMO... I was able to use the stick as a lever for my gear... or if you really feel creative.. you can try this:


I took the pots out of the stick and mounted them... the one on the left of the throttle is flaps (I have flaps on the rocker too.. but somtimes I want more or less than what is offered.. and I needed something to do with the pot so..... ) The other pot is used for rudder trim... and the throttle pot on the MS stick is for pitch.


My current setup after the mod:


Note that I use a MSFFB2.. but only because it was and still is the best FFB stick out to date. Although I have a spare in my closet.. it wont last forever... and I am still in a quandry as to what I will do with the stick if I go Vista since it is no longer supported. The stick will work.. but the profiling software wont.

388 views...
18 replies....
38 posts in the poll....

Surely we can do better than that. Everyone who looked at this thread should have posted in it.