quote:

Originally posted by thefruitbat:

quote:

Originally posted by Freiwillige:
Actually the Ta-183 design was used as the starting basis of and evolved into the Mig 15.

Allies were not the only one to use captured German technology and German engineers!

was it?

they both a superficial resemblance, due to both having swep wings, apart from the visual element they are completly different.

Without doubt the soviets benifited from german tech, with regards to swep wing design, but just because the ta183 had swept wings, dosen't mean that the mig 15 was based on it.

It is a thery that they were from the Ta-183.

I'm trying to find a plane like the F-86 without getting any mods.

well, you can't.

Owl, do your own research.

There aren't any planes in unmodded IL-2 that compare to the F-86. The F-86 was built in a totally different era.

Is the MiG-9 more advanced then the P-80 in IL2?

quote:

Originally posted by Treetop64:
Owl, do your own research.

There aren't any planes in unmodded IL-2 that compare to the F-86. The F-86 was built in a totally different era.

I do a LOT of research. I am looking for opinions here.

than the p80 in il2, yes, but still the same gen.

The p80 in il2 isn't a p80 shooting star, it is the prototype, the yp80.

The Ta-183 dosn't apear in the "first generation" class. Just thought I'd let you know.

quote:

Originally posted by The_Stealth_Owl:
The Ta-183 dosn't apear in the "first generation" class. Just thought I'd let you know.

it didn't exist either. just thought i'd let you know

I think the MiG-9 flew along side the MiG-15 in the korean war. Is this true?

IIRC from much info presented here before Kurt Tank did go to develop the 183 in Argentina was it?
It didn't work out.

quote:

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
IIRC from much info presented here before Kurt Tank did go to develop the 183 in Argentina was it?
It didn't work out.

Yeah the catchily named FMA IAe 33 Pulqui II

The yp-80 is definately inferior to the Panther (mod) and the F-84 G1/2/3 (mod)... but the Sabre is hard put to keep up with the Mig-15(bis) (mod) ...as IRL

quote:

Originally posted by The_Stealth_Owl:
I think the MiG-9 flew along side the MiG-15 in the korean war. Is this true?

Owl, I recommend you take a look at view object section about the YP-80 and Mig-9. You'll find some interesting info there.

And Wikipedia as well:

P-80

Mig-9

Thanks for the help WN, but don't you think I already looked there?

Was the YP-80 all weather? Was the MiG-9? Was the Me-163?

quote:

Originally posted by Freiwillige:
Actually the Ta-183 design was used as the starting basis of and evolved into the Mig 15.

Allies were not the only one to use captured German technology and German engineers!

If you have *any* sources backing that up, I'd love to see them (no, really, I want to see them. Russian jet developments based on German tech was a *huge* hole in my senior thesis, and I'd love to get any info on that).

So far as I know, the Mig-15/F-86/Ta-183 thing was started during the cold war because people in the states had this idea that Russian theoretical knowledge of aerodynamics wasn't advanced enough to allow them to skip straight to swept wings (ignoring, of course, the speed at which they were able to adapt to jet engine tech in general to build the Mig-9).

There is, as far as I know, *no* evidence to support the idea that the russians stole the F-86 swept wing idea, or that it was even largely based on captured German technology.

Also, another clarification: Many of the Germans that ended up in Soviet hands were *not* what are usually known as engineers in the west. They more properly could be called technicians. They were the people in charge of turning engineering drawings and the like into actual machinery (or the operators of lathes/etc for making aeronautic equipment). The problem is that western vs. Russian title convention for various people and roles.

quote:

Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
As Boosher said, the F86 is streets ahead of the P80.

The P80 used a varaiation of the first generation of the British Jet engine and straight wing design.

The F86 was swept winged and used a much improved version of the Jet engine. It was a far superior design. It incorporated much of the captured German technology gained after WW2.

As for the representation in the sim, I am not sure, but the F86 should be quite a bit better in all but sustained turn rate. (possibly even better in sustained turn too if the F86 used leading edge slats, but I am not sure if it did or not?)

The P-80 of Korea had undergone improved engines and was not such a bad turner at low altitudes, also was generally never very good up high. And many think it was bad turner but with those straight wings it could probably turn as well or better than an F-86 could down low in thick air at lower speeds, despite slats on the Sabre. The Sabre would be better at high speed turn at any altitude and had an insane roll rate. If a Mig pilot got accidentally low and slow against a P-80, piloted by a good pilot, he very well could have gotten into serious trouble. A Thunderjet or Panther could do OK in such circumstances too but such opportunities didn't happen often. If the Panther was as good as it is in the modded game it would have been a world beater but I think it's a bit over-modeled!! Can't say that for a fact though, so don't hold me to that. The Migs had a job to do up high more often.

quote:

Originally posted by The_Stealth_Owl:
Thanks for the help WN, but don't you think I already looked there?

quote:

I think the MiG-9 flew along side the MiG-15 in the korean war. Is this true?

I thougth perhaps not because this doubt. As this info is avaliable in the view object section.

But I am glad to be wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...9Kxxd88s&feature=fvw