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Caliber is only the diameter of the round, and doesn't cover slug mass, or the power driving it. The German MG131 has a 13mm round, but only the energy to get it to ~750m/s with a 34 gram slug, while the Browning .50 has a strong enough charge to push its 12.7mm, 43 gram bullet up to 890m/s. The Japanese and Italian 12.7mm guns use shorter cartridges with less powder than the US/British 0.50's so they have lower muzzle velocity, less stopping power, and lower penetration. With heavy machine guns, the goal isn't to blow them apart, but rather, you are trying to cripple them. Primarily, you're going for black/grey smoke, or an outright engine stoppage. As for the Hellcat, I've found it excellent for going after 1943 generation Japanese fighters, but it doesn't excel in either speed or turning performance enough to really compete against the European theater aircraft. Basically, it's fast enough that it can BnZ any of the 1000hp Japanese fighters, and it can turn well enough that they generally can't break away from the boom. It has enough firepower to kill them, and enough armour that they can't kill it. Against a Ki-43 or A6M it is the wrath of god. Not so much against anything else. That's not to say that that's a meen feat. Try taking out an early A6M in a Ta-152C. It might not kill you, but it may give you an aneurysm. Harry Voyager |
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By the year 2020 we will probably have fully patched SoW & expansions... maybe even fixed some hot IL-2 issue as well... what more can we ask  .
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Hey mate it isn't easy but it is doable... check out this track; http://www.esnips.com/doc/1a55...oorKi43-vs-4xFM2-408 I shot 4 super Wildcats in that track... those are vastly harder to down than Zeros and also I shot them down with Japanese 12,7mm (.50cal) which is actually inferior to U.S. .50cal, in game too... it can be done.  But it's hard. |
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Most of the Zeros have 7.62mm (.30 cal) MG's, not 12.7mm/13mm (.50 cal) guns. Some of the later ones have 13mm ones though. The Japanese and Italian MG's I just cannot get any hits in at all with, and they don't do much damage whether they are .30 or .50 cals. They have big white tracers that you'd think would be good for hitting enemies with, but they seem harder to get in hits with for some reason, I guess because they have less velocity than German or Allied MG's. ----------------- Farewell to freedom in the Adriatic and to the days of wild abandon. Check out my BRAND NEW campaign, "The Pirate Menace" Also check out my old Air Pirates campaigns! Air Pirates Part One Air Pirates Part Two |
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+1 It is easier to hit with Browning .50cal and UBS 12,7mm than with any of existing axis 12,7mm, be it MG131, Breda-Safat 12,7mm or their Japanese counterparts. |
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If you're used to the interval it takes for Browning 50 bullets to cross a certain amount of space to reach target then
you're going to make mistakes in timing your aim and shots with slower bullets. It's not about which ones are better down at the target range since what matters there is consistency above all else. The most used match rifle cartridge sold is the .22 LR rimfire with a muzzle velocity just over Mach 1, not some 3000+ fps varmint round. Stop jumping from plane to plane and you might get used to how long your shots take to cross 100's of meters. When people take a plane out to see what it can do they really find what they can do with it. |
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Thanks . . . You know what, I've noticed this too. Well I like flying B109's. All versions. I notice the 20m's in the emil I have to aim them diffently than say the 20 mm's for F n G models. Well wing vs nose aside, I mean the timing of bullet path . . . Also the 15mm in the 109F2 vs the 20mm in G2 . its funny because my aiming goes out the window in the triple cannon la-7 when it should be cake with that type of cannon it has, but I can hit better than the 109 with the 30mm nose cannon . . . In regarding SOW series, yes I sure hope they fix things regardin the main A/C. Well they are doing Battle O Britain, so at least they'll model spits, hurricanes, ju-88's, he-111's, emils, and other participants properly. __________________________ I look to the sky where my help come from. And I seen it circling around from the mountain Thunder! You feel it in your chest You keep my mind at ease and my soul at rest |
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One thing about the IL2's Hellcat... It shares the same "bug" with Corsair, P-47 and Wildcat: never open radiator one bit, it'll only increase the drag and not help cooling the engine at all!
Like P47 and F4U it has cronic tendency to overheat at lower alts but above 6000m has no power limit at all.  Also, The IL2's F6F-3 and F6F5 are identical in all ways but the cockpit. The F-3 even has the same loadouts(it was more limited in real life) and has slightly better cockpit visibility, so always pick it if possible! |
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The best way to lower engine heat is to get it below redline (100%) for a while. Anyone with experience pushing
the old manual shift non-chip-controlled cars should know this, bikers should even more so. It works in the IL2 models I've used as well. If radiator flaps cost X kph then see about lower rpms with closed flaps to get the same speed and if you can then you're all set. From back in the first year of IL2 it was out that open radiator flaps also left greater chances of your engine getting damage even from fragments -- all those oil lines and electric parts are weaker than the crankcase. When people take a plane out to see what it can do they really find what they can do with it. |
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The Italian 12.7's, while not as good as the US .50's, are not that bad, you just have to keep your pipper on the target for a few seconds more. Luckily the Italian kites are fairly maneuverable, if a bit slow. Good hunting, Sillius_Sodus |
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no not exactly hit and run...more like stall fight for all you people badmouthing the energy fighters ( p-47, fw-190, corsair, hellcat, etc. ), these planes PWN other planes if you know how to fly them right, which like bender said, flying them to their strengths. Which basically mean keep your energy(speed) up.... real dogfights aren't fought at a lame 130 mph on the deck...real manly dogfights take place 12K+ feet in the air at speeds up to 260M.P.H. The corsair, as well as the hellcat, has a strong, powerful, and durable heavy-duty pratt&whitney radial engine; powerful weapons; and can sustain extremely fast speeds( up to 480MPH). Also it's zoom speed is fast. American planes can't turn great like japanese planes or german planes, but their boom&zoom capabilities are superior, and if used right can pounce on any plane it sees like a Lion on a it's prey  I'm an expert corsair fighter. |
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Eh? The 152 is one of the best (if not THE best) piston fighters in the game. If you're accurate, you can clip the wings of most fighters in one burst, gotta love the 30mm cannon (planes that are much more durable than Zeros), it can go over 100mph faster than the Zero in level flight, and unlike the FW190, it has enough maneuverability to ensure that they don't get away from your boom (I'll never understand how people can use the 190 against anything but bombers, it has no pitch authority whatsoever). |
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A good way to learn energy fighting is to fly a Tempest against a group of AI Ki-61's. They are much slower than the Tempest's top speed but much more maneuverable and if you don't keep your speed up and zip by them, they'll get on your six and stay there no matter what you do. It can be pretty intense, the AI flies slow Japanese planes like 61's, 43's and Zeros exactly the way they are supposed to be flown--they wait until a faster plane makes the mistake of dropping to their speed, then they pounce.
Or try P-38's against Zeroes or 43's, that is tough too. ----------------- Farewell to freedom in the Adriatic and to the days of wild abandon. Check out my BRAND NEW campaign, "The Pirate Menace" Also check out my old Air Pirates campaigns! Air Pirates Part One Air Pirates Part Two |
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Check your stick settings maybe? Firepower does not make a plane good (but it can make a good plane better). Guns aside, I can't see much use for the 152, especially the C. You say the 190s have "no pitch authority", yet according to the 4.09 updated IL2 Compare, the 190A9 will take 23.17 seconds to turn 360* at 374kph, whereas the 152C will take 27.15 seconds and do so at 388kph. Best turn speeds are roughly identical, but the Anton creams the 152. And this is true across all speed ranges. In fact, the Anton cna still turn (albeit, SLOWLY) at 540kph, the 152C gives up at 520. On the deck, the A9 is faster. Falling behind only from 2 to 4Km, and then it's faster once again all the way to 10Km. And the Anton also outclimbs the 152C at all atlitudes up to 7Km (where it falls quickly behind in ROC). The 152C does have 1 disticnt advantage, it has a higher VNE. But given the choice, I would take an A9 over a Ta-152C any day. And would much prefer a Dora over either. The H, oddly enough supposed to be the high alt version whereas the C was the low alt version, will actually beat the A9 clear across the board, speed, climb, and turn at all speeds, from the deck all the way to 10km. Which ironically, makes it a better low alt fighter than the low alt version. lol Still rather the Dora though - faster everywhere below 8Km (than the 152H), climbs better up to 7Km, and turns better past 420kph (and maintaining authority to a higher speed than the A9). Ever since we got the 152s, I wondered about them. Did Tank just plain screw up? Or are they not being properly represented? Or were there problems with the ones used for testing, from which the sim's FM are derived? Assuming they are properly modeled, and there was nothing wrong with the actual tested craft, then it was a clear step backwards - and that just doesn't make much sense. |
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?... All the FW190's enjoy excellent elevator authority. |
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I usually fly the 152H, so if the 152C is vastly inferior, I haven't noticed. I don't think they were undermodelled, the plane was simply designed to take out B-29s so it was meant to fly at high altitudes. 470mph at altitude and 350mph at sea level (with boost engaged, although it lasts a lot longer than with most planes) ain't no joke. As for the 190, maybe I'm just not pushing it to it's turning limit because it flips over so friggin' easily if you stall it, or maybe it just looses authority at a relatively low speed, but people sure seem to get away easily when I BnZ them (the same can't be said of, say, a Tempest). Is the 190 better in 4.09 (I haven't made the upgrade yet)? But it sure seems to me that while the 190 has vastly superior roll ability, the 152 turns more quickly, which has proven (so far) to be more important. And there definitely isn't much you can do in a 190 if someone gets on your tail and you don't have a lot of altitude to get away. Haven't flown the D yet because it hasn't been in too many online games and I'm busy flying other things in campaigns, but I sure have been disappointed with the A's handling. |
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I think you just aren't used to the 190. It's not great at turning but if you're good at aiming you don't have to stay in a turn battle very long--just get one blast on a fighter and he's usually done. And its roll rate means you can change direction quicker if you know what you're doing.
With experience you get used to the speed stall (where it flips to the right if you pull back on the stick) and get used to how hard you can pull on the stick before it happens, and also you will see the warning signs where it pulls a tiny bit and you can hear the air buffeting around the plane and see the plane shake a bit. A lot of major planes do it too, like Spitfires, Tempests, Corsairs, etc etc, so it's not just the 190. ----------------- Farewell to freedom in the Adriatic and to the days of wild abandon. Check out my BRAND NEW campaign, "The Pirate Menace" Also check out my old Air Pirates campaigns! Air Pirates Part One Air Pirates Part Two |
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It still seems like he should have left well enough alone and just tweaked the Dora - is the sim is anything to guage by, he went backwards with the 152, and his claims if it being a whole new world left general opinion (and use) of the Dora lower than it might have been. Anyway, in '42, the F4 and G2 109s are arguably superior to the A4, however, the A4 can still wreak havoc, especially in groups. In 43, it shifts. While the G6 is still capable against it's contemporaries, the A5, A5 1.65ATA, and A6 are the better choices. Rember, when the Antons came on the scene, they gave the RAF fits and nightmares. Against the Spit Vbs of '43 vintage, the Antons have speed at all altitudes (and lots of it), plus roll rate, plus firepower, plus armor advantages. While the Spitfire will run low speed rings around the 190, at high speeds (420kph+) turn rates are actually equal. Over that and the 190 is superior. And the 190 will outclimb the Spit Vb through sheer speed (high speed, low angle climb) as well. Just stay fast, anticipate, use your roll advantage, and smash them with your 6 guns and you are golden. The Mark 8s get a bit scarier. You have to REALLY push them fast to attain parity in turn rate, but still hold roll, armor, and firepower advantages. You can still outclimb then through speed (just not as easily), and are faster from 0 to almost 3Km, then even until almost 4Km, then faster again (until almost 7Km, and just drop off from there). Stay in your advantageous alt ranges, and stay fast. I wouldn't call a Spitfire meat on the table, but... you can at least be nearly untouchable to them (and living is more important than scoring a kill  ).'43 IXcs are actually much like the 8s, so all the same basic stuff applies. Like bastardsword said, it just takes time to get used to it. |
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If your having problems with high speed stalls lighten up on your control input (changing your stick settings will make a big difference as well).
There is a utility called IL2 compare which charts aircraft V speeds. Download it here... http://mission4today.com/index...Base&op=show&kid=348 A big part of the trick is keeping the aircraft in the part of the flight envelope it was designed to fly in. FW190 likes to go fast, flying in tight slow speed horizontal circles is not what it and its peers were designed for. F6F vs. A6M is actually a very good example of this. The Hellcat will dominate the Zero if flown to its V speeds where as the Hellcat is doomed if it slows down to fight the Zeros fight. After some practice and refinement to your technique you should find the FW190 antons are on par or superior to any of their contemporaries. |
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Yes, I try to make small control movements but then the enemy has no problem escaping my BnZ attack simply because I don't have the maneuverability to line up on their six. I mean, when they notice you (and they WILL notice if you're playing with external views on), they have no problem just doing a loop or split-s or something to get out of the way. I usually try to dive down on them quickly instead of getting involved in long dogfights, but I nonetheless find it a lot easier to get kills with the 109 because of the superior handling. Having six guns (four of them cannons) is great, but not when you can't line up to use them.
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